(07-05-2017, 04:37 PM)CatMan Wrote: Huh?!

I'm getting dreams at this level, I feel good in general.

I'm not "running away" from anything I'd be quitting if that was the case...I'm self diagnosing the loops as you told all of us to do. And I decided to stop going for too many a day and just accept that the model's 2 loops is enough. And it has been.

Actually, it was doing jack shit different at 21 loops, hence why I dropped it down, didn't feel worth the huge pain in the ass each day to keep the ASRB going. I don't get it, you criticised me going so high, now you criticise when I cut down to what your models told us to do...I experimented as you instructed, and in the end I choose to run what you told us to...2 loops. It's feels more than enough now. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether it's 2 loops or 21, so it's far more practical and a better use of time to do 2, especially since that's the original number you gave us to run anyway.

I posted great things I'm experiencing at this level of loops now...and somehow it gets all perceived as negative? Weird. Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting.

Anyway, 2 loops feel solid and more than enough now. Hell, since we've been on this version for over four months now...seems likely to me 2 loops can do more now after removing who knows what in all of that length of time, than when I didn't feel anything at 2 loops at the start. It's worlds apart from before when I first started this version.

Believe what you will, I have zero reason to make up or lie about what I posted.

My models told YOU to do 7 loops. You did what?

In the interest of accuracy Shannon I believe you said he should run 6 loops based on this post on CatMan's thread.

http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-8582-p...#pid168348

I think this was before you opened it up for everyone to experiment with as many or as few loops based on their gut/intuition. I believe CatMan was just following directions both times as he did 6 loops as instructed until you opened it up for experimentation based on his posts in the thread. It's likely something gets lost when there are so many posts flying about.

I'm just frustrated. I doubt it will make any difference regardless until 3.2 comes out.

Hey CatMan, the Rational Male books are good, but I'm not sure they're best going to serve you with where you are with women right now.

You have problems with trusting the nature of women. Reading the Rational Male books, although they're not wrong, they're not the books that are best going to serve you I believe. They're going to be useful for a guy who has the Disney princess version of the nature of women and needs some red pill, but I think you're already way over into the red pill with your thinking and so you don't need further reinforcement in that area. What do you think?

I think the following articles will help you: (you can only read 10 for free a month, so if you want to read more without paying you have to use a proxy or something)

These ones are on the nature of women:

-Will a nice car and good job get you laid? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/will-n...t-you-laid

-How to get comfortable with female sexuality - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-ge...-sexuality

-Deep down, do women long for true love most of all? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/deep-d...e-most-all

-"Women are evil" - http://www.girlschase.com/content/women-are-evil

-Are all women slaves to hypergamy? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/are-al...-hypergamy

Once you're done with those, here's some that will help you with the current women from your social circle:

-How girls show interest - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-gi...w-interest

-Why girls who like you reject you - http://www.girlschase.com/content/attain...reject-you

-Mixed signals from a girl - what these mean - http://www.girlschase.com/content/mixed-...these-mean

-Hotter women are subtler (and hook up less) - http://www.girlschase.com/content/hotter...-hook-less

-7 Reasons why all girls are naughty girls - http://www.girlschase.com/content/7-reas...ghty-girls

I've picked those ones out particularly for you and your situation. Read them slowly over a few days, let them digest, think about how they apply to your situation, and see how you feel.

I was a virgin until 25, and I know the fear that comes with losing your virginity. I lost mine because I got very drunk and my now girlfriend practically dragged me to her house and slept with me. I very nearly ducked out of meeting her that night, but I think the anti self-sabotage modules just tipped me over and it happened. I know it feels impossible, but it will happen for you too, just give it time. Read those articles. It will all start to click.

CatMan --

I think the frustration comes from the fact that you received the SOLE honor of Shannon modeling the perfect amount of loops for you... and you didn't run them. Doesn't matter if he told everyone else to experiment with the amount of loops. He straight up told you what would work. Honestly, it does look a bit like self-sabotage, even if it's manifesting in the form of positive results.

(07-06-2017, 12:22 AM)ichigo Wrote: Hey CatMan, the Rational Male books are good, but I'm not sure they're best going to serve you with where you are with women right now.

You have problems with trusting the nature of women. Reading the Rational Male books, although they're not wrong, they're not the books that are best going to serve you I believe. They're going to be useful for a guy who has the Disney princess version of the nature of women and needs some red pill, but I think you're already way over into the red pill with your thinking and so you don't need further reinforcement in that area. What do you think?

I think the following articles will help you: (you can only read 10 for free a month, so if you want to read more without paying you have to use a proxy or something)

These ones are on the nature of women:

-Will a nice car and good job get you laid? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/will-n...t-you-laid

-How to get comfortable with female sexuality - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-ge...-sexuality

-Deep down, do women long for true love most of all? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/deep-d...e-most-all

-"Women are evil" - http://www.girlschase.com/content/women-are-evil

-Are all women slaves to hypergamy? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/are-al...-hypergamy

Once you're done with those, here's some that will help you with the current women from your social circle:

-How girls show interest - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-gi...w-interest

-Why girls who like you reject you - http://www.girlschase.com/content/attain...reject-you

-Mixed signals from a girl - what these mean - http://www.girlschase.com/content/mixed-...these-mean

-Hotter women are subtler (and hook up less) - http://www.girlschase.com/content/hotter...-hook-less

-7 Reasons why all girls are naughty girls - http://www.girlschase.com/content/7-reas...ghty-girls

I've picked those ones out particularly for you and your situation. Read them slowly over a few days, let them digest, think about how they apply to your situation, and see how you feel.

I was a virgin until 25, and I know the fear that comes with losing your virginity. I lost mine because I got very drunk and my now girlfriend practically dragged me to her house and slept with me. I very nearly ducked out of meeting her that night, but I think the anti self-sabotage modules just tipped me over and it happened. I know it feels impossible, but it will happen for you too, just give it time. Read those articles. It will all start to click.

I highlighted the article that I think is an issue for DMSI users. Attainability.

(07-06-2017, 05:39 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: CatMan --

I think the frustration comes from the fact that you received the SOLE honor of Shannon modeling the perfect amount of loops for you... and you didn't run them. Doesn't matter if he told everyone else to experiment with the amount of loops. He straight up told you what would work. Honestly, it does look a bit like self-sabotage, even if it's manifesting in the form of positive results.

Yeah, I totally would have liked having a custom modeled number of loops, too, as my gut - whilst a decent tool - is not infallible and is privy to subconscious self-sabotage.

So, yeah, do try to follow the modeled number, CatMan! Shannon's models are no joke.

I think Swisston got a modeled number of loops, too, sometime back.

SM3 had auras that made the sub-user more approachable right? Especially in the later stages?

Edit: Typo

(07-06-2017, 12:22 AM)ichigo Wrote: Hey CatMan, the Rational Male books are good, but I'm not sure they're best going to serve you with where you are with women right now.

You have problems with trusting the nature of women. Reading the Rational Male books, although they're not wrong, they're not the books that are best going to serve you I believe. They're going to be useful for a guy who has the Disney princess version of the nature of women and needs some red pill, but I think you're already way over into the red pill with your thinking and so you don't need further reinforcement in that area. What do you think?

I think the following articles will help you: (you can only read 10 for free a month, so if you want to read more without paying you have to use a proxy or something)

These ones are on the nature of women:

-Will a nice car and good job get you laid? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/will-n...t-you-laid

-How to get comfortable with female sexuality - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-ge...-sexuality

-Deep down, do women long for true love most of all? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/deep-d...e-most-all

-"Women are evil" - http://www.girlschase.com/content/women-are-evil

-Are all women slaves to hypergamy? - http://www.girlschase.com/content/are-al...-hypergamy

Once you're done with those, here's some that will help you with the current women from your social circle:

-How girls show interest - http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-gi...w-interest

-Why girls who like you reject you - http://www.girlschase.com/content/attain...reject-you

-Mixed signals from a girl - what these mean - http://www.girlschase.com/content/mixed-...these-mean

-Hotter women are subtler (and hook up less) - http://www.girlschase.com/content/hotter...-hook-less

-7 Reasons why all girls are naughty girls - http://www.girlschase.com/content/7-reas...ghty-girls

I've picked those ones out particularly for you and your situation. Read them slowly over a few days, let them digest, think about how they apply to your situation, and see how you feel.

I was a virgin until 25, and I know the fear that comes with losing your virginity. I lost mine because I got very drunk and my now girlfriend practically dragged me to her house and slept with me. I very nearly ducked out of meeting her that night, but I think the anti self-sabotage modules just tipped me over and it happened. I know it feels impossible, but it will happen for you too, just give it time. Read those articles. It will all start to click.

To be honest Catman, you should be reading Blackdragon's stuff and following his guides to a t. He's exactly where you could be, a super busy, super rich, late 30s guy who is not super good looking. He made a decision he was gonna master his dating life no matter what, and meticulously experimented, learning game, online dating, putting in MASSIVE action and even putting his business life on slowburn because you need to really focus on one thing to master it. The main difference I see between you guys is that it doesn't seem like he had the traumatic experiences that you have had so it was much easier for him to take the big risks and massive action to get him where he wanted. You've complained multiple times about how its hard to avoid gold diggers yet he seems to have no problem with it, he even writes an article where he experimented with gold digger game but found it pointlessly expensive. I think the key is that he uses online game to meet girls he doesnt know who don't even know how rich he is, whereas you meet girls in social circle who know you're loaded and thats gonna make things way more difficult. Anyway my point is I guarantee reading his stuff would be a TON more useful than rational male for you, his stuff got me from a year long dry spell to seeing 3 gorgeous girls at once (AM and SM also take huge credit here, but without following Blackdragon's guides running those subs alone would not have got me halfway there, ime subs are like 40-60% of the picture). And he's a lot more similar to you than me so I believe it could be even more useful to you.

I honestly believe if you continued listening to dmsi, and followed Blackdragon's advice 100% step by step, sucking up any doubts and fears and excuses that you have, you'd lose your virginity within 3 months, and have at least 2 girls on rotation (or a monogamous relationship if you prefer) within 6. But if that sounds scary to you then by all means don't take my advice

And I noticed hookers being brought up earlier in this thread.. I'm not gonna say much on this, just that there is only one good reason to get a hooker and that is to get get you used to the reality of sex. For you, especially having not even kissed a girl at your age, theres gonna be a huge mental rift of wondering whether these things you've seen and heard about but never felt, and you're gonna be extremely intimidated when it comes to the reality of hooking up with girls who have tons more experience than you. Massive players like Russell Brand lost their virginities to a hooker, I have tons of friends who lost it to a hooker before the floodgates opened for them of getting girls on their own merit. It seems you're worried that you'd be relying on money, no it'd literally be a one-off, the massive mind rift would be shattered, and you'd probably exude more sexual energy in your day to day dealings because you know what sex is and what it feels like to be a sexual being. Anyway thats my 2 cents you don't have to agree. Going back to Blackdragon he talks about how the longer you go without sex the more exponentially massive your brain makes it and how it ruins your frame and he recommends older virgins to do it so its not a big deal anymore, fear of the unknown is gone.

Gentlemen, and Cataleya, lol! I've noticed her viewing the Men's section often so I thought a shout out was in order, lol.

Something was INDEED lost in translation based on what was said about my loops. I always intend to follow the directions, and was flattered I was given a specific figure to use even though I am not sure how that can be done to any degree of accuracy without meeting me or evaluating me in person somehow. And I believe Shannon gave me the 6 loops thing BEFORE opening up all of the users to self-regulate. I thus interpreted it to mean Shannon needed more data to work with, and then decided to see what kind of data he could get from it as a result of using extremes, varied forms of data. So, I followed suit. First, I pushed it to the maximum, then creeped back to the recommended, to see where my best results lie. I never had any intention of defying him, I was just trying to follow along with what was asked of us is all. I'm sorry for seeming ungrateful or that I'm not listening, Shannon.

I have since found where my best results lie, I'm happy to say. Now, I don't think it's as simple as that, as this figure, is what I started with, but was not seeing what I'm seeing now. I think it's a combination of the loops per day, but ALSO, the accumulated time spent on the sub, no doubt clearing and healing a lot of things, so that now those loops can do a lot more. So, that's why this figure, the one I started with on this version, is now starting to punch through compared to when I started, it's a combination in my view.

I love The Rational Male, The Rational Male: Preventive Medicine, and another I'm starting to appreciate is Practical Female Psychology For The Practical Man. These 3 have made a massive impact on me, and have helped me rebuild my mind, VERY important foundation stuff before anything else to me. They've made me see things so much differently, see girls so much differently, see myself so much differently, and have made a big impact on things for me. I'm so glad a few weeks ago I got them. Blackdragon I've followed his stuff for awhile in the past, he has a lot of good points. When I read it, a lot of it wasn't actionable to me because I wasn't in the right place of mind to make use of it with girls if you get me. Now, I seem to have a better mindset and feeling about things, so after I read the 3 books above enough times that I have solid recall of all their points, I'll move on to something else. Maybe Blackdragon round two, thanks so much for posting about him. It's good to know I was on the right track before by finding him, if it wasn't perhaps the right time to read him, due to my state etc.

I've been a bit silent about things for a few weeks, to make sure they're real, as I wasn't sure if I was simply WANTING to see that happen so I was making a bigger deal out of things that they warranted. Or, if I was starting to see some change at last in reality. Now, I'm starting to think they're real, and the effects seem to be improving each week. This has been a consistent pattern for about 3-4 weeks now maybe, with both girls I know, and brand new ones. Starting very small, almost non-perceptible, but now, building and building over time, not only in how girls are acting with me, but also in how I feel in situations, and how I'm acting, and how I see myself as well. It isn't massively different yet mind you, but it's enough and consistently occurring enough, for me to notice it in the light of day. The issue with not seeing things happening is why I turned to the 3 books above, to SHOW me about things, within myself, in society, and in girls in particular, now I see things much more clearly. I've often wondered if it was a mix of DMSI and the massive realisations in these books that have changed things the past few weeks, since I have felt massively different since reading them. I'm feeling much different overall, I'll tell you that...

So, I plan to continue using 2 loops of hybrid headphones a day. It's clear I'm starting to break through now, if only in a small amount. I interpreted Shannon's words to mean we should self regulate to give more varied and new kinds of data. I never meant to make Shannon waste time or be ungrateful, on the contrary. I've been a huge supporter of Shannon, this program even to the point of buying V1 at the time of release. Even though I couldn't use it for a long time as I was running another program but wanted to show support to Shannon and to the project with real dollars, and a supporter of IML at large. This was simply a misunderstanding of his words at the time.

I was initially frustrated with that response to my earlier post. One where I was happy and positive about things happening as it's been such a long time to finally see something from the program after such dutiful use. And was met with what I viewed as negative bashing when a post of me with serious positive feelings about things with the program have been admittedly rare. It put me in a really bad mood. I then thought of when I earlier stated that because I've been deemed a "resister", everything I say is coloured with that brush, so it's viewed through a lens of negativity and skepticism. So, if a "normal" person posts "hey, I have a major IDGAF vibe with this, I'm not needy anymore", he gets cheered on and told the program is working. But, if I said it, it's "reversal response" or "resistance in following the script". That grated on my nerves at times, as even if I felt I was making progress, it'd make me question myself often and feel the sub wasn't working. No wonder Shannon said he thought some of us are so used to being broken that it's a mindset, well to me this kind of phenomenon encouraged and reinforced that. Which is why I decided to take a little break from the forum, to stop that from billowing up into my mind anymore, to break the habit of internalising that. Now, I'm of the opinion that all along I was probably just needing to clear and heal a lot of stuff as a serious focus. And now that I'm feeling much different about myself, and about girls, more "things" are happening. Maybe I wasn't "resisting" everything actively nearly as much as theorised, it was simply a dire need of healing and clearing, I don't know. I know how if it needs to, it will focus on clearing and healing, so maybe that's what has been happening until a few weeks ago. I just know how I feel now about myself, and about girls, compared to before, that's enough of a difference to be noticed. I'm by no means done, but I'm tangibly further along than I was weeks ago, I know that.

Thank you all for your posts, likes, messages, thoughts and time out of your days.

CatMan, you have no idea how happy I am for you to finally see some real positive difference in your life from this sub.

Congratulations man!! And I will definitely check out the books you mentioned!

Its only a matter of time!

I am just frustrated. It seems like every time I get my hopes up from something you write, you crush my hopes that we are finally making progress in a later post. Add to that pages and pages of ideas and additions to add in 3.2, and then being stuck working on MLS at a snail's pace and the custom I have to do after this... it's frustrating that I can't work on everything at once, also. It was just an expression of frustration, venting. I just need to disconnect more. Focus on what I'm doing, stop worrying about the rest. I'm working on it. No hard feelings on my end, hopefully you feel the same.

I'm going to hope after 3.x final comes out. Until then... enjoy whatever results you get in the meantime.

(07-10-2017, 08:53 PM)maxx55 Wrote: CatMan, you have no idea how happy I am for you to finally see some real positive difference in your life from this sub.

Congratulations man!! And I will definitely check out the books you mentioned!

Its only a matter of time!

Thank you VERY much Maxx, that post brought a big smile to my face. It's long overdue, and I hope to continue the momentum. It's slowly, but tangibly built up more and more each week, not just results with girls, but my mindset and feeling. I've been diligently reading my 3 books, they've each had a MASSIVE effect on me. I can't recommend them enough, I have such a vast understanding of myself, other guys, and girls in particular now due to them. It's amazing to watch others now, especially girls, and see the book's words play out in real life with girls around you and you can decode them, lmao. Amazing. This will have big effects for me over time, I'm sure.

(07-10-2017, 09:30 PM)Shannon Wrote: I am just frustrated. It seems like every time I get my hopes up from something you write, you crush my hopes that we are finally making progress in a later post. Add to that pages and pages of ideas and additions to add in 3.2, and then being stuck working on MLS at a snail's pace and the custom I have to do after this... it's frustrating that I can't work on everything at once, also. It was just an expression of frustration, venting. I just need to disconnect more. Focus on what I'm doing, stop worrying about the rest. I'm working on it. No hard feelings on my end, hopefully you feel the same.

I'm going to hope after 3.x final comes out. Until then... enjoy whatever results you get in the meantime.

It's been a real jaunt, nobody has to tell ME that, lol. I think I even said at the start, with V2.2, and often after that, that I knew that due to my past, this program had it's work cut out for it. A lot of clearing and healing was needed, I knew it from the outset. I knew it would be a serious journey. I'm only getting small amounts of results right now, but they are seemingly legit now, and increasing weekly. So, I may be starting to breakthrough, so even though it isn't to design goal or sex itself yet, I think with this happening, it's a very good sign. Maybe the dire needs of clearing and healing I've had are starting to subside. I've often wondered about the fact that sooner or later it must be processed "enough" to start showing the rest of the script through it, maybe that time is starting now. Future progress to design goal could be possible it seems, based off these last few weeks. I'll stick with it.

Disconnecting, focusing on what I'm doing with myself (in life and with girls, what they're doing with me) and stop worrying about the rest (when others comment when they aren't physically with me to accurately judge). Indeed, exactly what I wrestled with and have started to improve on since that last exchange. Ironic to have the same kind of realisation!

At the end of the day, others may speak through their own issues, and aren't side by side with me in situations, so they may not be able to fully see what I'm seeing. So at times I've likely denied what may have been going on and followed their words more than my own eyes. I am trying to be more trusting of my own perception of things, as well as educating myself by reading those 3 books for example, and will until they're largely memorised. And also the amount of accumulated V3.1-A snowflakes themselves doing their own changes to move things along in that regard as well, of course. All in all, I think I'm at the point where it's clear I'm executing a bit more each week, and I can see the effects in myself, and with others, girls.

I am noticing small tangible change now, clear enough to be legit. So, I wanted to report on it as I knew it would be appreciated. But only after taking a few days away from the forum to start to train myself to disconnect more from it and to believe more in what I'm seeing first hand with my own eyes and trusting myself, more than anything.

Thank you, Shannon.