Subliminal Talk

(07-24-2016, 09:29 AM)Banksy Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 08:52 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 08:10 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 07:38 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2016, 09:58 PM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]If and only if I was 100% sure I am the father, I would have no problem paying child support. Look, it is still your kid, dislike you may of his/her mother, and the kid deserve adequate parental support. It isn't the child's fault that he or she is born under the circumstances. Most if not all the money paid out as child support would go straight into childcare, food, etc. costs anyway.

I would always go for being viewed as a delinquent father over being a single mother and having to raise a kid you did not really want to have / someone seen as careless and slutty who managed to get impregnated unintentionally, especially when they're carrying all that weight in their stomachs for 9 months while all can see.

Really? If a woman FORCED you to cum inside her and decided (against your wishes) to have the baby, you'd be completely fine paying child support?

Wow.

I don't see being forced like that happens to many people. Not unless one is turned on enough to cum in the first place and/or somehow can't gather the strength to wrestle out of it. Plus the fact that if it happens one time the probability of pregnancy is very low.

Add to the fact that not as many people are forced to pay child support for their unwanted kid as you think. It is not that one ask nicely and the other automatically gets money withdrawn from the bank account, no hassle.

So unlikely, but sure, make an exception to the rule that if it happens as you say.

You're basically trying to argue against the point by making a 1 in a 1,000 example that is extremely unlikely to happen. Doesn't render the other 999 out of 1000 that justify this point invalid.

So... You're saying that you'd willingly play a game where there's a 1 in 1000 chance to get f*cked up the ass for 18 years? Oh wait, we were talking about rape, silly me, that's not willingly. Let me rephrase:

You'd be OK with someone forcing you to play a game where there's a 1 in 1000 chance you'd get f*cked in the ass for 18 years?

Sarge, calm down. I think we're getting away from the original point. Rape is dangerous for women because of the risk of pregnancy and having to struggle on your own with a kid. Even man on man rape is considered funny for most people. That's why you should stay out of prison.

You don't get to tell me to calm down, especially when I'm not upset.

If you want to go back to the main point I agree, but the main point was about rape and the woman getting pregnant in which case it is not ok.

The woman steals your seed (at the very least) and then there's a good chance you have to pay child support (metaphorical f*cking in the ass) or (if you don't pay it) you're likely to go to prison and get f*cked in the ass for real, all the while most people will think it's funny, as you said yourself.

That is the issue.

(07-24-2016, 09:33 AM)Rocket13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2016, 10:46 PM)Banksy Wrote: [ -> ]Also, the process of applying for child support is no walk in the park, you have to go to court and prove that this person is the father, and, on top of that men rarely ever actually pay child support, So...

dont believe that garbage

Don't believe that "garbage" which happens to be a fact?

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css/reso...ld-support

(07-24-2016, 10:21 AM)Objectivist Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 09:41 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 09:33 AM)Rocket13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2016, 10:46 PM)Banksy Wrote: [ -> ]Also, the process of applying for child support is no walk in the park, you have to go to court and prove that this person is the father, and, on top of that men rarely ever actually pay child support, So...

dont believe that garbage

Don't believe that "garbage" which happens to be a fact?

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css/reso...ld-support

If a woman claims you are the father, the federal goverment will summon you and have a genetic test for it. It's not that difficult. Paying isnt't even the worse part. You , statistically speaking, won't get custody and your paycheck is being cut.

Neither of us is speaking from experience, we can't say how difficult or not difficult it is, it's not a simple process though.

(07-24-2016, 10:21 AM)Objectivist Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 09:41 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 09:33 AM)Rocket13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-23-2016, 10:46 PM)Banksy Wrote: [ -> ]Also, the process of applying for child support is no walk in the park, you have to go to court and prove that this person is the father, and, on top of that men rarely ever actually pay child support, So...

dont believe that garbage

Don't believe that "garbage" which happens to be a fact?

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css/reso...ld-support

If a woman claims you are the father, the federal goverment will summon you and have a genetic test for it. It's not that difficult. Paying isnt't even the worse part. You , statistically speaking, won't get custody and your paycheck is being cut.

It is bureaucratic and complicated, actually. Read up on the link, it's the government website.

I can quote one small part of it here:

- Information about the noncustodial parent
- Birth certificates of children
- If paternity is an issue, written statements (letters or notes) in which the alleged father has said or implied that he is the father of the child.
(- Legally determining the father through paternity test if that is an issue)
- Your child support order, divorce decree, or separation agreement if you have one
- Records of any child support received in the past
- Information about your income and assets
- Information about expenses, such as your child’s health care, daycare, or special needs.

And more on that page.

No wonder so few are actually demand child support from the father compared to the number of single mothers out there. Personally I only know 2, and both wanted nothing to do with the father so they don't bother. Bringing the father to court for money is pretty much admitting to being a gold-digger in the eyes of their friends.

I used to be on Reddit a lot and was a reader over that subreddit myself... I then had a change of heart.

Well, I only hope I've made more friends than foes today.

You guys are really believing what the GOVERNMENT has to say about child support statistics? The same government playing alpha to women and playing a major hand in the emasculation of men? These made up statistics are little more than another way to shame men into become good lil' provider betas. Recently, I've had a string of female acquaintances refer to me as a "man-child" because I take my money and do wtf I want with it. When I mentioned considering buying a solo trip to Iceland, they acted like that was the weirdest thing ever -- to use my money and travel alone rather than spending it on some ungrateful woman.

Here's my secret -- I HAVE gone through the child support system. I paid child support for a year until that stopped for reasons I won't discuss.

The process is NOT bureaucratic. It's NOT even hard. It's fast and totally biased against the male. Here's how it went:

I received a letter stating that a particular individual had requested that the state collect child support on her behalf. I was instructed to call a number. I spoke to the case worker, she informed me that I could get an idea of what I'd have to pay by using the following calculator: https://nddhacts01.dhhs.state.nc.us/Work...ustody.jsp

The calculator basically said I'd pay upwards of $675/month, without any regard to my personal bills. My rent, my car payment, my student loans -- NONE of those were considered. ONLY what's on that worksheet. That line labeled "extraordinary expense?" No, no. Doesn't refer to you. Refers to things like private schooling that you're already paying for.

When I told her that I couldn't afford $675 because of reasons, she stated that the worksheet was law and if it went before the judge, he would most likely enforce that number. However, she could act as a mediator between me and the mother to see if she could lower it a little.

Infuriated yet? No? Well, get ready --
At this point, I was pissed. I threatened to quit my job, because I wasn't working my @$$ off to hand my cash over to this b*tch -- who I had already given thousands to. The case worker informed me that if I quit my job, I would still be responsible for back pay, they'd just give me a small time to find another job. And get this: I said I'd just get a bartending job somewhere, avoid paying out large amounts. She said that the judge could compel me to get a job that was equal in income to what I was making at the time, and if I didn't comply, the judge could adjust the child support to match the higher salary. In other words, I'd still have to pay the $675, even on as a minimum wage bartender.

How is this fair, in any way? I managed to get out of my child support payments pretty much by being an evil, cruel, manipulative individual. Had I not turned into that dark triad mofo, I'd still be at a job that I HATED, paying out absurd amounts of money to a woman who's parents are beyond rich. She just wanted to screw me over.

What the f*ck is wrong with you guys who continue to give into this "women are wonderful" effect. They are humans, just like us. They can be just as evil and manipulative (and even more so) as men. They are not inherently good. This is why they can get away with ruining so many lives. The men they destroy are largely invisible, and are pretty much demonized as betas for "failing." This is why male suicide is so high.

I've made a vow to stay off my high horse, but sorry -- I had to ride in and smash some heads this time. I really can't believe that I just read someone say that it's okay for a woman to pretty much enslave a man to 18 years of financial destitution and then tried to anger shame Sarge for being like, wtf.

Really guys. Wake up.

Can we have this discussion on the main DMSI discussion page. You guys have had like 3 pages of back and forth that has nothing to do with Shannon's results using Dmsi.

http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7535.html

Much appreciated.

(07-24-2016, 11:36 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]How is this fair, in any way? I managed to get out of my child support payments pretty much by being an evil, cruel, manipulative individual. Had I not turned into that dark triad mofo, I'd still be at a job that I HATED, paying out absurd amounts of money to a woman who's parents are beyond rich. She just wanted to screw me over.

What the f*ck is wrong with you guys who continue to give into this "women are wonderful" effect. They are humans, just like us. They can be just as evil and manipulative (and even more so) as men. They are not inherently good. This is why they can get away with ruining so many lives. The men they destroy are largely invisible, and are pretty much demonized as betas for "failing." This is why male suicide is so high.

I never said it's Ok... obviously it is wrong. Read what I wrote again please.

Women aren't inherently good. Neither are men. If you look at things not based on personal interest, abolishing child support (the only other way here) cause much, much more damage. Look I already made the points clear on the circumstances where child support comes into play. And nowhere did I say I think it's OK what you insist that I do.

You clearly gotten screwed over and you're angry because the government failed out. Understandable, but it doesn't mean everyone else suffered the same.

(07-24-2016, 11:36 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are really believing what the GOVERNMENT has to say about child support statistics? The same government playing alpha to women and playing a major hand in the emasculation of men? These made up statistics are little more than another way to shame men into become good lil' provider betas.

This is the part where I realise I should stop taking you seriously. I am now interested in your thoughts on what other outrageous conspiracies are the government up to.

Give me a set of statistics that show society favours women. I can show you another set how it favours men in different ways. Each gender is different and they get their own share of sexism of double standards. Sorry to break it to you, you're not the only victim of the way things are today.

(07-24-2016, 11:52 AM)Dilettante Wrote: [ -> ]Can we have this discussion the dmsi discussion page. You guys have had like 3 pages of back and forth that has nohing to do with Shannon's results using Dmsi.

http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7535.html

Much appreciated.

Hey Dilettante,

Apologies for that. Also typed it before I read your post so I didn't catch it on time.

(07-24-2016, 11:54 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]Abolishing child support (the only other way here) cause much, much more damage.

You're thinking in binaries. Abolishing child support isn't the only way. Making it a bit more fair (as in, considering the everyday expenses of the parents) would go a long way to prove that child support is truly for the child's best interests, and not reallocating society's resources from hardworking men to women.

EDIT: For anyone actually listening, go back and read my post. They gave me a worksheet with like... six questions and said, that's it. No appeals. If the mother wants to help you lower the payments, they'll "mediate," but other than that -- you're on the hook for whatever that thing spits out. Go ahead, plug your information in.

As for the other mess you're saying, never said life wasn't fair for women, etc. I was only addressing this myth you kept pushing that child support "ain't no thang" and that it's hard to get. That's incorrect. You're misleading people when you say that and I wanted to make sure that some clueless dude doesn't stroll into this thread and believe that nonsense, only to get blindsided when the court railroads his @$$ because a woman held him down and stole his seed -- which you clearly approve of.

Take note, gents. Believe this guy at your own peril.

(07-24-2016, 12:05 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 11:54 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]Abolishing child support (the only other way here) cause much, much more damage.

You're thinking in binaries. Abolishing child support isn't the only way. Making it a bit more fair (as in, considering the everyday expenses of the parents) would go a long way to prove that child support is truly for the child's best interests, and not reallocating society's resources from hardworking men to women.

As for the other mess you're saying, never said life wasn't fair for women, etc. I was only addressing this myth you kept pushing that child support "ain't no thang" and that it's hard to get. That's incorrect. You're misleading people when you say that and I wanted to make sure that some clueless dude doesn't stroll into this thread and believe that nonsense, only to get blindsided when the court railroads his @$$ because a woman held him down and stole his seed -- which you clearly approve of.

Take note, gents. Believe this guy at your own peril.

Well, of course I would support making it fairer. It's common sense, I thought you want to take it much further. Just consider that the view taken typically is that the child deserves the same standard of living as his or her parents. That's why the more you earn the more gets taken from you. Whether that makes sense of not is another matter for each to decide.

I did not say it ain't nothing. I merely said in most circumstances that happen it is really down to the interest of the child. The system as it is right now is failing both genders in different ways. I was talking about Sarge describing the situation and disses on the very idea of child support and I explained how the sequence of events he described almost never happens all at once.

A large number of the time when the question of child support come up, look, there is a case to pay it. Not Sarge's, of course. And I barely see child support being paid in real life except when the woman really tries to screw over the father.

We should be able to disagree and not get sensitive.

(07-24-2016, 12:15 PM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]And I barely see child support being paid in real life except when the woman really tries to screw over the father.

(07-24-2016, 11:36 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]The men they destroy are largely invisible, and are pretty much demonized as betas for "failing." This is why male suicide is so high.

(07-24-2016, 12:05 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-24-2016, 11:54 AM)Lowe Wrote: [ -> ]Abolishing child support (the only other way here) cause much, much more damage.

You're thinking in binaries. Abolishing child support isn't the only way. Making it a bit more fair (as in, considering the everyday expenses of the parents) would go a long way to prove that child support is truly for the child's best interests, and not reallocating society's resources from hardworking men to women.

EDIT: For anyone actually listening, go back and read my post. They gave me a worksheet with like... six questions and said, that's it. No appeals. If the mother wants to help you lower the payments, they'll "mediate," but other than that -- you're on the hook for whatever that thing spits out. Go ahead, plug your information in.

As for the other mess you're saying, never said life wasn't fair for women, etc. I was only addressing this myth you kept pushing that child support "ain't no thang" and that it's hard to get. That's incorrect. You're misleading people when you say that and I wanted to make sure that some clueless dude doesn't stroll into this thread and believe that nonsense, only to get blindsided when the court railroads his @$$ because a woman held him down and stole his seed -- which you clearly approve of.

Take note, gents. Believe this guy at your own peril.

Was this woman living with her rich parents? Did the courts take that into consideration?

Regardless, this woman still got the short end of the stick, you made off better than she did for an encounter that's supposedly beneficial for both you.

I'm open to changing my mind of course, I think men and women should both be careful, but women more so.