Subliminal Talk

Hello friends!

I feel compelled to journal after the developments on the forum the past little while. The powers that be did their part to try to move the forum towards it's original purpose. So, in response, I feel I'm obligated to resume journaling to also provide something in return. Thank you, not only for the intent, but for the eventual, albeit unfortunate, action. It feels good to be back .

Moving on...as I don't wish to dwell or incite any controversy. But I felt it obviously needed to be at least briefly addressed. And that IML needed to be credited for the difficult decision.

Listening regimen: 8 loops per day. It's either 8 loops of bed side speaker while sleeping, or a few loops of hybrid headphones, immediately followed by the remaining loops on bedside speaker while sleeping. I do like the "hybrid" option when schedule permits, the idea of varying the input style and with the most potent version of the program in a hybrid, could do a good job breaking through.

Since Shannon opened up the ASRB2 for testing, I have attempted to continue a streak of listening with no rest since he gave the go ahead. I wanted to observe if severe exhaustion would become a factor like in previous versions, or if some progress would occur. It's been a pleasant and uneventful experience since starting the "no day off" regimen.

The dreams have centered around me and famous people, being in rapport with them in dreams, them knowing me and vibing me etc. Obviously some feelings there of wanting respect, validation, status and the like, makes perfect sense. Some about me seemingly wanting to be younger, that's legit as I have often thought I've "missed out" as I struggled when much younger to be successful with girls and be "popular". Also, I seem to have some more dreams about girls on this version. Those have been an extreme rarity on SM3, only one I can recall on the whole program! And, on earlier versions of DMSI, they were still very VERY rare. So, that may be something. The dreams center around the same theme mostly, situations with them going good, or bad, depending on dream. Nothing sexual in the dreams IIRC. But several about being mistreated, or ignored, when bad ones. Then there's ones like me fighting my way out of a forest for example. Lots of "weird" ones like that where I've written them down and afterwards had to research online to find the possible meanings for. They ALL check out as being plausible though. So that's something.

No exhaustion to speak of, well not from the sub anyway, lol. I have a serious family health issue that dealing with has drained me of quite a bit of energy for awhile now. This is even with the "no day off" system implemented for awhile. So that's good to know, that this "dose" can be handled without issue.

My mentality seems to shift. I go through some periods of anger/resentment/frustration towards girls for my treatment and lack of success, at times. Usually when I see something on social media from a girl I am or have been interested in, and I feel I missed out on her due to rejection, or in the past she mistreated me. Then I go through periods of "letting go", where I feel okay, and not thirsty at all and just unplug from girls/sex. Back and forth. I'd say definitely more of the second is occurring than the first. If I had to pick the more dominant one, I'd say the second, the "non-thirsty almost not caring" one. It's hard to truly know if it's "non-thirsty not caring", or some part giving up on the idea of girls and sex to be honest. I've struggled trying to separate those often. It does feel weird to be as obsessed as I was in the past for girls and sex though, if that helps diagnose lol. It "feels" normal to me, dating girls and having sex etc., but I also understand I don't have success with either and haven't in my entire life at the same time. It "feels" normal, even though it hasn't been for me. I know we are built for it, or humanity wouldn't be here, so clearly it's "normal", haha. It's like a duality of feeling on it. Maybe someday it'll be "normal" for me too .

I do feel more calm and relaxed with girls. Things flow better as a result in conversations. Rapport in general is quickly gained in most cases, half of that is me having great social skills beforehand, I've worked hard on them for a long time. They've served me well in business. But I notice a change in attitude in others when greeting me and interacting with me they don't have when dealing with others before or after me. Also you are remembered afterwards, many small details from previous interactions are remembered too. Nothing wrong with that.

I can't say I've noticed much of the sexual attraction stuff. If it's there, it's been too slight to notice, or they haven't been willing to act on it for whatever reason. Nice "vibe" is there and all, but it still feels like YOU have to do the driving for the interaction or nothing happens. I admit I've had no dates, make outs, sex yet. It still feels like somewhat of an invisible wall in front of me and girls/sex for now, there just doesn't seem to be any actual attraction I don't think. I have a ways to go yet I guess, more internal work mixed with a lot more focus on making girls able to initiate and escalate like the design goal is desiring them to. That still seems to be a herculean task that I honestly admit I have doubts about. I guess I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them. Even when they have a sea of options chasing them, I don't see why they would bother chasing ME. And that they'd be attracted to me based off of how attractive I find them, I still don't know how that part of the sub is going to work. That they find me hot, because I find them hot, and it's the same level of attraction returned to you somehow.

I may have left things out, I'll come back and fill in blanks if so. I'll answer any questions posed.

It feels good to be back journaling, trying to give back to the community again. Thank you again to the IML gods for the gesture for the forum. I made sure it wouldn't go to waste on me, and wanted to contribute again. I hope others follow suit!

I plan to use this version until the next version drops, which is hopefully somewhat soon. This version may be like a stalemate in my mind, it'd be great to finally start making true progress in there...

All the best for now, friends!

Great Journal, CatMan. I look forward to reading more

Good to hear things are improving man of the cat.

Good to see you back Catman.

Quote:I can't say I've noticed much of the sexual attraction stuff. If it's there, it's been too slight to notice, or they haven't been willing to act on it for whatever reason. Nice "vibe" is there and all, but it still feels like YOU have to do the driving for the interaction or nothing happens. I admit I've had no dates, make outs, sex yet. It still feels like somewhat of an invisible wall in front of me and girls/sex for now, there just doesn't seem to be any actual attraction I don't think. I have a ways to go yet I guess, more internal work mixed with a lot more focus on making girls able to initiate and escalate like the design goal is desiring them to. That still seems to be a herculean task that I honestly admit I have doubts about. I guess I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them. Even when they have a sea of options chasing them, I don't see why they would bother chasing ME. And that they'd be attracted to me based off of how attractive I find them, I still don't know how that part of the sub is going to work. That they find me hot, because I find them hot, and it's the same level of attraction returned to you somehow.

I saw some things in your post when you made it that I wanted to address, as they seemed to represent misunderstanding, but of course got distracted with everything else I have to do recently.  So let's make a quick post here.

You apparently keep hiding behind this same faulty thinking:

Quote:I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them.

The truth is, you are able to believe whatever you choose to believe.  This is apparently why you aren't executing yet: you choose to believe things like this.  These beliefs are self limiting beliefs, and they result in you refusing to execute because there is apparently a cognitive dissonance that you have between those beliefs and the goals of DMSI.  

Women decide what they think of you based on what you tell them to think of you.  You keep insisting on telling them, with the body language, choices, actions and reactions that would naturally result from such limiting beliefs, that you aren't qualified to be their choice.  They will be glad to believe you and rule you out if you self disqualify, because that is something only someone of low social value and self esteem/self confidence would do.  High value women don't have time for that.  They have too many guys interested already, so they naturally filter out all but the potentially high value guys.  You know this.  And unless you're a really good troll and you're just trolling us on this whole virginity/DMSI thing, the problem still remains that you have yourself locked in failure based thinking, which is why you are failing.

This can - as far as I can see - only be the result of one of the following options:

A) You genuinely believe these things that limit you, because you also believe that they keep you safe from ever experiencing what traumatized you in the past, and because of the amount of fear and trauma, coupled with your incredibly rigid personality, you refuse to allow those limiting beliefs to change to beliefs that would allow you to execute DMSI and achieve the goals of the program.

B) You are at some level convinced that you are in some sort of contest or battle of wills with me and the only way to win is to refuse to execute.  

C) You're just trolling us all massively and you really are getting results from DMSI and/or are not a virgin.  If this is the case, let me congratulate you on being exceptionally skilled at it.

D) Some combination of these three.

Presuming you believe you're telling the truth, and you really are having this experience and you aren't trolling us, you need to realize the following facts:

1. You cannot decide for anyone else what they think of you.  Only they can do that.  
2. You don't have the right to decide for her if she thinks you are attractive or not.
3. You can intentionally disqualify yourself in her eyes, and that, as far as I can tell, is exactly what you keep doing - on purpose.
4. You keep trying to prevent DMSI from working by being locked in the following limiting thinking and beliefs:

• I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them.
  
• If I trust a woman, I will get hurt/burned/accused of rape/etc.
  
• If I allow any woman to be (sexually and/or romantically) attracted to me, she will hurt/burn/accused me of rape/etc.
  
• I am not good enough to get any woman I really find attractive to have sex and/or a relationship with me.
  
• It happened this way/was true in the past, so it must happen this way/be true in the future.
  
• If I convince myself that I am incapable of doing what is necessary to achieve these goals, I can hide forever from executing, achieving them and the scary things I imagine would result.
  
• All I have to do to stay safe is believe the things that prevent me from achieving the goals of this program/having sex/having a relationship/etc.
  
• I would rather have no sex/relationship because it keeps me safe/proves I have a stronger will than Shannon can influence/whatever.
  

I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to unlock your beliefs and free you from them, but nothing so far has worked.  (Unless you're just trolling the hell out of us, and really, it is working.)  The fact is, I do know how to force you, yes, even you, to execute.  However, that would involve taking away your freedom of choice, which I will never do.  So you'd better think about what I have said here, and hope that I find a way to persuade you with one of the forthcoming versions of DMSI, because "they ain't much mo' comin'".

Ultimately, it boils down to two things:

1.  Whatever you most and genuinely want, you will experience.
2. Whatever you most and genuinely believe, you will experience.

If you manage to resist DMSI all the way through 3.4, you will have what?  Personally, I landed a lifelong relationship with a great woman who has/is everything I want, by executing, back at v3.1.  I don't need DMSI anymore.  And I'm not the only one who can say that.  What will you have if you refuse to execute even 3.4?  The ability to say DMSI didn't work for you?  Is that some sort of badge of honor for you, some sort of "win"?  If it is, and even 3.4 doesn't get you going, enjoy your "win".  Is it the ability to feel safe from all those evil females out there, whom you believe to all be out to get you?  If so, enjoy your porn and your self-made mental prison.

When you want the goals of DMSI more than you want what you have, you'll let go of those beliefs that limit you to what you have, and allow the rest to happen.  So far all that mental prison of self limiting beliefs you lock yourself up with seems to have gotten you is... nothing.  Literally.

Hmm...well in a sense I wish I WAS just trolling and really was living an amazing life executing with beautiful women...I wish that so badly...I've dreamed of being "that guy" my entire life. I wasn't expecting to be called a troll for simply journaling my experience wow...

I appreciate the detailed message, Shannon. I wondered whether you saw it or not, and I know you were previously on your break. I felt the need to try to journal again to help R&D, to give you info, in return for the forum cleanse as that is a gesture I and others appreciate. It's the least I can do even if I haven't enjoyed it much in the past.

I'm happy for you that you found someone. That's fantastic. However, I can't think of many cases of clear design goal so far in this version, from guys that weren't already getting results with women like NoLimit for example. He got great results before he has said in the past, and also did so on previous versions. Overall, epic results seem to be the exception more than the rule currently. Which is to be expected still, don't get me wrong. My point is that my results aren't atypical based off what I've seen, I felt my situation was being labelled as the minority which I don't feel is the case at all. It seems there's a way to go yet with development.

To clarify, I'm not trolling, I have far better things to do with my time. I'm grateful for my time here and wouldn't want to squander it, or your time, with nonsense like that.

I'm not in some attempt to "prove you wrong" on anything either. I don't even see the purpose of doing that to someone on the other side of the internet. Again, I have better things to do with my time. I merely want to achieve the goals of this program, if that is possible.

I just wanted to try to give something to the forum to help advance the sub in my posts if possible. And to pay back the debt of goodwill the IML team gave the forum recently. If my posts aren't of value, I can stop. I'm not here wasting time trolling, but if that impression has been taken somehow, obviously my post isn't of value or is deemed redundant. Fair enough, I just wanted to try to contribute something for R&D again in the hopes something of value could be found.

I am indeed a virgin, never had a girlfriend, a date, or kissed a girl. I'm 37. I don't like stating all that, obviously no guy would. But just to clear the air, there it is.

I've simply never had those "gorgeous girls" sexually attracted to me in my life despite trying, I've been rejected each time I've tried to escalate myself as well, so it seems massively far fetched currently due to it NEVER happening before. I think the implications of that are being grossly underestimated. You seem to have this view that I just randomly "decided" that "gorgeous girls don't like me" with zero basis and without trying to ask them out etc. I have asked them out many times over my life, both before the program, and during the program, although in the last few years I've really slowed down on trying and asking. Not to say it's impossible for it to occur, but never having experienced it in my life, it's hard to truly BELIEVE in it. It's a complete 180 from my reality. I know you've said before you need to believe it's possible, which surprised me because I remember reading how belief isn't required for the subs in the FAQ. But if it's never happened one time all along, for decades now, I don't see how that's easily achieved without massive crushing evidence to the contrary that the old paradigm no longer exists and at least one or two DO find me sexually attractive and act on it clearly to me. Chicken and the egg I guess. Especially when I do continue to attempt to date girls when I try to make the first move after not seeing much design goalish behaviour from them so I figure I should at least try to do something myself, I get rejected or they don't reply to a text/message to go out etc. I seem to hit this "wall" in front of them, I can never breakthrough to be a guy they find attractive somehow, always the friend nice/funny/charming guy that just mysteriously never actually gets them attracted to me. Which just adds fuel to this fire, makes the belief even stronger then! I feel if I don't try anything, they don't act out design goal and nothing happens. And if I have tried to force it and escalate on my own without waiting for them to do it like design goal desires to do someday, it's a rejection or non-response. Which further fuels the belief again! It's a circle that I feel only a massive paradigm shift based off clear real life results can break, ultimately. I feel it's unfair to criticise the logic, when the logic is merely receiving feedback from women. Feedback that has only been negative for a lifetime, zero positive feedback, something that again I feel is being seriously underestimated in it's scope and ability to cripple you. "Get over it" or "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life with zero evidence to support it" isn't going to cut it. Because when I do that, I try and dare to be great, ask one out, it falls flat, I feel like shit again, and it gets reinforced slightly. I can't seem to dig myself out, even if I TRY to ask them out! I need REAL positive results in reality with these kinds of girls to dig out of the hole, I see no other way.

Unless, a workaround may be to massively enhance the self esteem/limiting beliefs area of the sub. Maybe something about old past events connected to those, and either reframing the impact, or making you let go of the impact. Kind of a "fake it until you make it" option.

Personally, I think it will boil down to at least some aspects of the sub being forced. I don't know, I don't see too many other ways around it. Some patterns are burned in by decades of clear precedents in cases, completely opposite to what the program says is possible. So, it seems to me, it will boil down to one of two scenarios:

1. You make the sub work where very attractive women, ones we realistically believed beforehand were out of our league, "aggressively pursue us for sex". Thus helping us past the old paradigms in our heads by showing clear results in reality...

OR

2. Some parts of the sub that need the mind reframing things or dealing with limiting beliefs etc. or whatever other issues these relate to, may need to be auto'd.

I don't know, Shannon, I don't envy your position. People, including myself in the past which I've felt guilty about often, have put you up on this pedestal to somehow slay the demons in our minds that have thrived and ruled over us for decades. All the girls of my past, I expected you to wipe them all aside through this program and allow me to be the man I've always wished I could be. Ridiculous pressure to put on you, I'm really sorry for that. That's why for a long time I've taken a back seat and tried to be much more cavalier about it, it wasn't fair to expect all that. And it seemed to be hitting a brick wall anyway, so I've just taken a far more relaxed approach to the program and it's future to stop feeling so disappointed like I did in the past. If I've struggled dealing with my past, I can hardly expect somebody else to handle it FOR me.

Not to mention, I know how you don't want to remove free will, I get it. So I look at things and think to myself often "okay, so this program is supposed to get women we find sexually attractive, find US sexually attractive, BECAUSE we find them sexually attractive, and to the degree we find them sexually attractive, and then aggressively pursue us to have sex with them". Now, if we take my "gorgeous girls" that are around me let's say, girls I flunked out of in the past in various ways at various times. I just fail to see how if there's no free will forcing, how this program will even work to make them want me now. Seems it'll just be a stalemate, as I'm not their "type" for whatever reason, and nothing happens. I'm not saying we SHOULD be forcing them to like us, I doubt that's even possible anyway. My point is I don't see how the program can work on girls given the above. It doesn't help that I haven't felt such attraction first hand from one of them to know it's realistic for me also, I suppose. But still, that example gives me big doubts about the program as it always has, I don't see how anything happens in that situation. Or even how the program is actually supposed to work, from a theory standpoint. I've never really understood that, but I'm not really into the whole aura scene thing, I admit.

Anyway, all the best to you. I hope your new project you're working on currently is paying off well. You truly deserve it.

Thanks again for taking the time to write to me. I'm sorry my post gave you a bad impression of me.

I am one of those women who at one point in my life attracted the best looking, most successful guys in the room. I went from that to attracting the ugliest, least successful guys in the crowd. I know that my upbringing had a lot to do with attracting the ugly ones, but there was something about me that still managed to attract great quality men inspite of all the lies I was made to believe while growing up. I was mostly attracting the ugly ones when I began to use the subs. I've been using the subs for 9 months, and I am attracting the higher quality men again. I still attract the ugly ones, and when they open up their mouth, ugh, these guys are very low class, low quality people. I'm learning to blow them off. It's not their looks, it's how they behave, but somehow what's on their inside gets reflected out.

The sub alone is not just going to do it, you also have to know that you can change, your attitude makes a big difference. Knowing that every situation that you encounter. Wether it's going to the grocery store or going to a party, you're going to get great results. You have to believe it, and keep your eyes open. For my SO, there were many years of not attracting good looking women, and so he didn't even look anymore to see if other women were paying attention. He had to almost train himself to be aware of the interest, because most women will show interest from far away. It's not always when they're close up.

(03-19-2019, 04:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]I am one of those women who at one point in my life attracted the best looking, most successful guys in the room.  I went from that to attracting the ugliest, least successful guys in the crowd.  I know that my upbringing had a lot to do with attracting the ugly ones, but there was something about me that still managed to attract great quality men inspite of all the lies I was made to believe while growing up.  I was mostly attracting the ugly ones when I began to use the subs.  I've been using the subs for 9 months, and I am attracting the higher quality men again.  I still attract the ugly ones, and when they open up their mouth, ugh, these guys are very low class, low quality people.  I'm learning to blow them off.  It's not their looks, it's how they behave, but somehow what's on their inside gets reflected out.  

The sub alone is not just going to do it, you also have to know that you can change, your attitude makes a big difference.  Knowing that every situation that you encounter.  Wether it's going to the grocery store or going to a party, you're going to get great results.  You have to believe it, and keep your eyes open.  For my SO, there were many years of not attracting good looking women, and so he didn't even look anymore to see if other women were paying attention.  He had to almost train himself to be aware of the interest, because most women will show interest from far away.  It's not always when they're close up.

Well said, you have to be ready to act on her signals. Even then you have to be prepared to go ahead even if your not getting attention. I do think we are getting closer to having it strong enough ware it's strong enough to get results without any effort at all.

Hey CatMan. Long time no see.
Luckily I just saw your journal today as well as Shannon's really, really great answer above.
I'd like to jump on the occasion and say something.

First, I'm not trying to give any relationship/sexual advice, but if you remember me, I'm sharing a lot with your stuggles. I had the same beliefs you have now (that I agree are limiting), the same trauma, the same experience, same results...basically, all your issues woman related, I had those too, but the only difference is that you're older than me. It's just that.

Now, the thing is I really overcame that - all of that, and I'm not like that anymore. So I want to say a few words because that's something that in your shoes I wish I had realized sooner. I'm not trying to be that guy that transcended life and now want to tell people what to do, but what made me shift my beliefs were the words of a random guy on the internet. So hey, I'm trying to do my part too and pass the baton.

One day I was browsing YouTube and I found the story of a youtuber I had subscribed for before. Basically, the story were along the lines of "Until you accept that you are unhappy because you CHOOSE to be, you'll never get out of the rut you're in." and I really disagreed with him at that time. I thought that was outrageous and inappropriate of him to say so.
He later made a video about it, and everything clicked. This is the random internet guy that made me change my mind. Basically what he said is that the state of mind you're currently in is a state of mind you've chosen, and none of the things we perceive as external are responsible for your happiness. Being happy is a state of mind you have to make the effort to choose. So you are responsible for it.
Replace "happiness/unhappiness" with your woman-related issues and that's exactly what Shannon states.

I may sound like an idiot if that's obvious to people, but for me it really wasn't. I thought being confident/happy and valuable to myself was something that was supposed to "happen" to me, like a random event I can hardly control, but it's in fact something I can get just like that! It requires just the effort to choose. The thing that I had never been taught is that: you can choose your state of mind, and it requires conscious effort and that's normal.

You really have to change your mindset like Shannon said. You'll never get out of the rut you're in otherwise. For me it worked and I felt so stupid for not realizing that sooner.
Since I started to apply what that guy said, I've never been happier in my life. I value myself however I want and I don't care at all about the external things. I mean, why would I when I have my own view of self-worth?

I wish I could tell you "I have now a GF now and voila" but this is not my point. I do not know if shifting your mindset will get you laid (I believe it will, but I don't know) but what I know is that this is the right mindset to have if you care about your self-development journey. Shannon is 10000% right about the rejection part. If you define your self-worth and values for yourself, you'll stop feeling shit at any random things that happen, including rejection.
Basically, everything Shannon said right here is something I can testify at 100%, for having the exact same struggles as you in the past:

Quote:That feedback can only cripple if you respond to it in a way that allows it to cripple you

Quote:That means you don't look within yourself to find your self worth, and that is ALWAYS going to fail.  If you take a woman's rejection as an indicator of your personal self worth, as it seems you do, then you need to change that belief too, the one that says: "I look to her to tell me what to think of myself."  No, you have that backwards.  YOU decide what to think of yourself, and then when you have done that, everything else will fall into place.  

If you base your self esteem, self worth and self respect on your own beliefs and choices, then you will never be asking anyone else what your worth is, and they will never reject you for doing so.  This is a big point, I think: women will smell this miles away.  Asking her what your value is, automatically assigns you a low value, and she will reject that.  

Now, you said:

Quote:"Get over it" or "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life with zero evidence to support it" isn't going to cut it.

Actually, it does cut it! And that's exactly what you have to do.
What Shannon and that youtuber said are actually backed by science. You're a man of logic? Then watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ0_p2nnK2Q.
The "Theory of constructed emotion" implies that your brain takes into account data inside your body and compares that against past experiences [that happened INSIDE your body] to create an emotion. And guess what, "you can change the software in your heads". Basically, that states that you can train your mind to apprehend life the way you want. Gurus have been right all along, you can literally choose your self-worth for yourself.
This is a whole new and legit view at treating things like depression. And it all starts by just making the conscious effort to decide, and choose.

Hope that'll help persuade you man, it just isn't worth it at all to keep having these beliefs. Why waste your time struggling when you can choose not to?
If I hadn't realized what these people said, I think I'd still be running DMSI by now and still struggle.
Again, I can't claim you'll get your holy grail - getting laid, with this but all I know is that this is 100% the right mindset to have while approaching life and the benefits are way over getting into woman skirts.

P.S: If you're interested in that youtube video, it's right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUREmOL0kmU. Disclaimer: he's a spiritual guy, but his words are sharp and rightful.