become irreistibly

[mysterymagick]

http://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-My-Pickup-Journey

This thread has details on results which are measurable.

measurable?

I see nothing only " I feel sexy" or someone spoke to me/looked at me/or when I was about to leave [with her] someone said "why are you taking my friend away". If she wanted to leave that would not stop her.

[K-Train]

measurable?

I see nothing only " I feel sexy" or someone spoke to me/looked at me/or when I was about to leave [with her] someone said "why are you taking my friend away". If she wanted to leave that would not stop her.

Programs like AOS, BIATBW, Sex Magnet, and Woman Magnet are intended to make the user more attractive/succesful with women/ whatever depending on their focus as well as change the user's mindset and thinking. The way you gauge their effects is based off of your previous experiences with women prior to their use and then compare the responses to what you are getting. Same goes with your thinking.

So let's take a look at MD81's thread:

1) Sexual State - It comes very rare, if it does I feel really sexual and feel myself attracting girls like a magnet. I wish I can have that state which I had first night when I woke up in the middle of the night, it was just so powerful

2) Looks, posture, voice - Constantly improving. Even few of my friends told me that you are becoming a little bit different, look sexy, more like a man etc etc

3) Checkouts - I am definitely getting them, including few where I felt I am going to get rapped - I don't focus on this much though

So for number 1, he states he feels sexier and can feel himself attracting women like a magnet, very typical results especially with AOS in the mix. A change in thinking and/or mindset is usually a good indicator that the sub is taking effect especially since both AOS and BIABW are Type B subs.

Number 2 is probably the most interesting because people around him are commenting that he looks different and sexier. Assuming MD81 did nothing extraordinary to change himself like put on some new clothes or wear some banging accessories, this is a pretty good indicator that the program is kicking in. Sometimes others can point out changes in ourselves better than we can.

Number 3 states he is experiencing more checkouts and what not. This is trickier to spot for those unfamiliar with the dynamics of body language which affects us as men more because we believe (mostly) in being blunt with our attraction whereas women are more adept and subtle with expressing interest. This is a big reason why some guys (myself included) sometimes miss out on opportunities with women because they either miss the signs or don't know what to look for in the first place.

Shannon however has listened to the community's response and in an effort to ensure more people are able to see and distinguish the effects for these manifestation/attraction programs he is going to upgrade them into 5G with the Optimus Engine.

[mysterymagick]

measurable?

I see nothing only " I feel sexy" or someone spoke to me/looked at me/or when I was about to leave [with her] someone said "why are you taking my friend away". If she wanted to leave that would not stop her.

Programs like AOS, BIATBW, Sex Magnet, and Woman Magnet are intended to make the user more attractive/succesful with women/ whatever depending on their focus as well as change the user's mindset and thinking. The way you gauge their effects is based off of your previous experiences with women prior to their use and then compare the responses to what you are getting. Same goes with your thinking.

So let's take a look at MD81's thread:

1) Sexual State - It comes very rare, if it does I feel really sexual and feel myself attracting girls like a magnet. I wish I can have that state which I had first night when I woke up in the middle of the night, it was just so powerful

2) Looks, posture, voice - Constantly improving. Even few of my friends told me that you are becoming a little bit different, look sexy, more like a man etc etc

3) Checkouts - I am definitely getting them, including few where I felt I am going to get rapped - I don't focus on this much though

So for number 1, he states he feels sexier and can feel himself attracting women like a magnet, very typical results especially with AOS in the mix. A change in thinking and/or mindset is usually a good indicator that the sub is taking effect especially since both AOS and BIABW are Type B subs.

Number 2 is probably the most interesting because people around him are commenting that he looks different and sexier. Assuming MD81 did nothing extraordinary to change himself like put on some new clothes or wear some banging accessories, this is a pretty good indicator that the program is kicking in. Sometimes others can point out changes in ourselves better than we can.

Number 3 states he is experiencing more checkouts and what not. This is trickier to spot for those unfamiliar with the dynamics of body language which affects us as men more because we believe (mostly) in being blunt with our attraction whereas women are more adept and subtle with expressing interest. This is a big reason why some guys (myself included) sometimes miss out on opportunities with women because they either miss the signs or don't know what to look for in the first place.

Shannon however has listened to the community's response and in an effort to ensure more people are able to see and distinguish the effects for these manifestation/attraction programs he is going to upgrade them into 5G with the Optimus Engine.

he states he feels sexier and can feel himself attracting women like a magnet,

that does not mean that he is attracting women like a magnet, only he feels he is

Number 3 states he is experiencing more checkouts and what not.

what not is right. what is a checkout? Someone looks at you. That is obvious to him because he is looking for it. Post hoc reasoning. People look at people all the time. The person being looked at does not know why they look only speculates based on their belief.Maybe they do look to checkut but it is not possible to say if they are impressed, only that they looked

i look at people in crowds, all it means is that i am scanning the crowd to see if there is anyone i know. If someone looked at me I would not read much into it

[K-Train]

what not is right. what is a checkout? Someone looks at you. That is obvious to him because he is looking for it. Post hoc reasoning. People look at people all the time. The person being looked at does not know why they look only speculates based on their belief.Maybe they do look to checkut but it is not possible to say if they are impressed, only that they looked

i look at people in crowds, all it means is that i am scanning the crowd to see if there is anyone i know. If someone looked at me I would not read much into it

I understand where you're coming from and I tend to do the same thing with subs especially as it pertains to attraction since women are, as I stated before, much harder to read than males but that's the good thing about subliminals...after a while it comes to a point where the possibility of post hoc reasoning/placibo ends and results start.

If I walk around looking for people looking at me, yeah I might get "results" but as you just stated they're probably just looking at me because I'm looking at them lol.

Ex.) Now let's say that I exchange looks with a girl (we're in a club/pub) she smiles at me I smile back...ok no biggie, maybe she's just nice. Wait a second, she's running her hand through her hair and looks down but...but so what, people touch their hair plenty of times...oh wait she just looked back up at me but who cares no biggie. Later on I notice she's standing beside me facing the other way...but so what right? Coincidence. Hold on a second, there's plenty of space, she's practically touching my elbow. WTF? So i turn around say "hey how are you?" she responds with "I'm great how about you?"time goes on and we exchange numbers.

But who cares? Maybe I was just lucky or she really liked me. So what? But if this starts happening more regularly then what is it? Hell, maybe I'm just "lucky"! But if you've rarely or NEVER had results like this or in the past you had to work harder to get them then what? Post hoc reasoning again?

At the end of the 32 days or whatever amount of time you choose to use a sub you have to ask yourself 1.) where was I before? 2.) where am I now? and of course 3.) was it really worth it? If your answer is no to number three then ask for that refund (within the appropriate time frame of course)

I'd be the first to admit that BIABW (the old version) was hard as hell to see results from especially since I was suffering from a mild case of male pattern blindness. Good thing I started with ASC first lol. User's more experienced in reading body language and understanding what it means will normally get better results than someone who doesn't simply because they can catch those subtle signs and differentiate between a simple lookover as you were describing or an indicator of interest (IOI). This is of course assuming the subliminal in mind is an attraction based subliminal.

I want to be perfectly clear on this though: I am not telling you how and what to spend your money on. If you still can't justify a way to spend your money on this stuff then that is YOUR decision and you are perfectly entitled to it.

[ShanghaiKiwi]

it is not confusing myself to want to know what i am exposed to

I can't verify the 'irresistible to women' one, having not done it, but I can say that based on the results I've had from other subs, I believe in all of Shannon's subs without needing further evidence.

My wife was frigid - poetry of the silent eros and female orgasm enhancer restored our sex life. I study Chinese because I live in Shanghai - I get through my flashcards 3 times faster if I listen to the subs while I study (even without continuous overnight usage). My wife's chest was flat - she gained about a cup size after 3 months and is still growing, I'm not stopping it till she hits DD. I don't care anymore what the copy protection script says - those results are too good to give up for a non-issue like that. I have my priorities on the results.

Of course, if the subs were secretly preparing an army of brain-washed snipers for the KGB, I'd give them up. But I don't think the subs are that good.

[Subeternal]

Honestly I couldnt be bothered catering to every point being made about AoS. My limited experience with AoS and BIATW shows you something. Women are the most subtle creatures. At best most regular men would have an "aha" moment hours even days after realizing the situation of what occurred.

Sexiness and attraction is always going to be subjective. She shows "signs" of interest. No no thats just me reading into things too much. If she shows too much interest it's either coincidence or there was another male around that was making her do this.

In my perception mystery the only thing that could justify to you that AoS works is if a girl is all over you or propositions you for sex. I've seen users like you in other facets.

No one is forcing you to believe AoS or any other sub works. If you dont like the copyright protection then by all means dont use it. Many have read that thread and continue to use them anyway.

I find is extremely funny when someone wants others to prove to them without a shred of doubt that the thing in question works. If it doesnt work for you stop using it and take appropriate action for a refund. How hard is that?

[Shannon]

I can see your point but i would not subject myself to something i do not know.I would question its legality too. You have said it is designed to see you do not lose out and will recoup even if not in money or similar words. So that sounds like maybe it is designed to
1 have people feel guilt and pay when it works
2 Have people recommend your programs to others so you gain in advertising
If they do work i would not be subject to something i do not kinow and so it is costing you a customer already even though the intention was not to lose customers

There is not, and never will be negative programming in any of my subliminals. That is exactly why I am still struggling, after 7 years of effort, to get Achieve Your Ideal Weight to do what it's supposed to do. If I was to use guilt, shame and fear, boom, I could have done it years back. Guilt is negative, and I despise guilt. I will not subject others to it.

I also have no subliminal messages telling people to recommend my programs to others. I have messages stating that people will consciously notice what the sub does for them - people don't realize it as well otherwise - but that's not part of the copy protection. I don't think you realize that I don't need to use underhanded techniques like those. My programs work, which is why they're being pirated. My goal with copy protection is to get people who would casually or intentionally pirate them to understand my point of view on the matter and out of that understanding, choose to not steal from me.

The copy protection will not force you to do anything. It's based in educating people, not forcing, not underhanded tactics. If I wanted to use underhanded tactics, I could have done all kinds of things, but think about it. What would that get me? Sooner or later someone would figure out what was going on, and my reputation would be damaged. People would no longer trust me. And without that trust, my sales would dry up and I would no longer be in business.

It would be therefore stupid and suicidal of me to do something that is objectionable to the users of my programs. So I took a much less aggressive and direct route than I might have otherwise. Less effective, but also safeguarding my reputation and the happiness of my customers.

I understand not wanting to use something that you don't know when it comes to this. I don't blame you for that hesitance. But I also can tell you that I know that other subliminals creators DO sometimes use the underhanded copyright protection methods, and some don't even admit to using them when they do.

So, if you're not comfortable with that, I can only suggest you use someone else's work. But I'm not going to sit idly by while people pirate my work and let it happen.

[mysterymagick]

I have messages stating that people will consciously notice what the sub does for them - people don't realize it as well otherwise

they do not notice if women are irrestibily drawn to them? must not be very effective then unless you consider not noticing looks

Anyway have decided not to use as I disagree in principle with subjecting myself to something not knowing what it is . I do not fear it, just principle. in relation to others puting underhanded techniques to stop it working if pirated i will say-

It is nonsense to say one can prevent a program working if it is not paid for. people can accept and reject what they wish. They can decide it will work because it is their mind and their opinion as to whether they should pay for it. It is their conscience that decides if they should have paid for it. It is their opinion as to whether it has been pirated/stolen. People who would not steal a purse will share file and not feel it wrong

And just as the subconcious can filter out and resist anything that the person does not really want to do or fears so it can filter out the suggestion it will not work unless paid for if that is not against the persons understanding of 'steal'

Also while you say that your programs work there is to my knowledge no scientific proof subliminals work. The original drink coke was a hoax, Vicary admitted it. What is on the forum is anecdotal evidence only and from people with emotional involvement

Thanks for your feedback.

[Shannon]

I have messages stating that people will consciously notice what the sub does for them - people don't realize it as well otherwise

they do not notice if women are irrestibily drawn to them? must not be very effective then unless you consider not noticing looks

The messages I refer to are to cause people using my programs to consciously notice the effects of subliminals making internal changes in them, their thinking and how they themselves act, since most people are not very aware of themselves or their surroundings the majority of the time.

Anyway have decided not to use as I disagree in principle with subjecting myself to something not knowing what it is . I do not fear it, just principle.

By this decision, you logically show with your choice of actions that you believe subliminals are valid and effective. Otherwise, there would be no concern, whether or not you knew what was in the script, because if they did not work, it would and could not affect you regardless. If you did not fear it, you would use it regardless.

in relation to others puting underhanded techniques to stop it working if pirated i will say-

It is nonsense to say one can prevent a program working if it is not paid for. people can accept and reject what they wish. They can decide it will work because it is their mind and their opinion as to whether they should pay for it. It is their conscience that decides if they should have paid for it. It is their opinion as to whether it has been pirated/stolen. People who would not steal a purse will share file and not feel it wrong

My first point would be to that you have not read the thread on copy protection, as you say you have, because if you had, you would know that I never said the program would stop working if you pirate it. On the contrary, I decided to allow people to get the benefits of the program regardless, because it only gives me a bad reputation to prevent it from working. I do not allow them to steal from me.

My second point would be that it is preposterous for you to come here with the profound lack of knowledge about the subject that you so prominently display, and tell me what I can and cannot do with subliminals. Especially after not even reading the forum well enough to know what you're talking about in your own argument! Your ignorance of what you are talking about is staggering, and as such, you have successfully destroyed all of your credibility.

However, it is not a matter of opinion as to whether something has been stolen. In a situation where I spend time, effort, and money to create something, and I offer it for sale, if you use and benefit from it without paying for it, and you do so without my permission, you have gained from my work, and I have not. That is you taking money out of my pocket. Which is theft. Plain and simple. Which would be the reason there is a law against doing it. You may have heard of it: copyright law? You can talk till you are blue in the face and justify everything you like, but the facts remain as they are.

And just as the subconcious can filter out and resist anything that the person does not really want to do or fears so it can filter out the suggestion it will not work unless paid for if that is not against the persons understanding of 'steal'

Again, your argument is based on a false premise, on top of being in error as to what you are saying. The subconscious can try to resist, but if the program is created properly, even the most resistant person will not be able to resist successfully forever. I proved that with two of the people who used my subliminal to successfully stop smoking. Of course, I'm sure you'll say that them stopping an addiction they had for decades, which they couldn't stop with any other method, is just a placebo effect. Again, you are ignorant of the facts, and the truth, and your argument is invalid therefore.

Also while you say that your programs work there is to my knowledge no scientific proof subliminals work. The original drink coke was a hoax, Vicary admitted it. What is on the forum is anecdotal evidence only and from people with emotional involvement

Your knowledge, as you demonstrated at least twice already, is at best severely deficient and questionable in a number of directions. In this case, you again display an embarrassing level ignorance, since it is quite obvious to anyone who has done even the slightest bit of real research on the matter of what scientific evidence there exists on whether subliminals work or not, that you haven't done any.

As for Vicary, you argue that my subliminals don't work because in 1957, someone claimed something he could not later reproduce. Your argument is a non-sequitur. Since I am pretty sure you don't know what that means, please allow me to be gracious and explain. A non-sequitur is a logical fallacy, and it means that what you are saying (my subliminals don't work because Vicary was perpetrating a hoax in 1957) does not logically follow, and is therefore invalid.

What is on the forum is anecdotal evidence, that is true. But not everyone has an emotional involvement. Anecdotal evidence, however, grows in validity as it becomes more prevalent. To disregard the entire body of evidence that is this forum because it is anecdotal is quite arrogant, given how many pointers there are here to the fact that something is genuinely going on. What this forum does show is that we should be doing higher level research and clinical studies, which will happen when they become possible. Such research is usually very expensive, and is not undertaken lightly. So the value of the forum's anecdotal evidence is at least that of the cost of doing said research.

You are showing yourself desperate to validate and justify your conclusion, which we both know is both based in fear and is wrong. Unfortunately for you, your knowledge, your argument, and your skill at debate all seem to be critically deficient in this case. I suggest you would do better to spend your time on something else.

Thanks for your feedback.

You are quite welcome. Any time.

[mysterymagick]

By this decision, you logically show with your choice of actions that you believe subliminals are valid and effective. Otherwise, there would be no concern, whether or not you knew what was in the script, because if they did not work, it would and could not affect you regardless. If you did not fear it, you would use it regardless.

in other words i would pay you for something i do not know is in it.

i did not say you had stopped it working

Anecdotal evidence, however, grows in validity as it becomes more prevalent.

no it does not. tere are only a small amount of people on the forum and they do not represent humanity at large to any great degree

Your knowledge, as you demonstrated at least twice already, is at best severely deficient and questionable in a number of directions. In this case, you again display an embarrassing level ignorance, since it is quite obvious to anyone who has done even the slightest bit of real research on the matter of what scientific evidence there exists on whether subliminals work or not, that you haven't done any.

and you think you are the only one who knows about it. Even more than scientists who have stuided in formal way and more than any other producer. that is pretty arrogant

And i only metioned Vicary as an example. there is no scientific proof even today they work

You are correct in one thing though i do not have time for this

[Andrew]

there is no scientific proofe even today they work

Actually, there's a lot. They are easy to find and many have been done in the last ten years. Use scholarly databases like EBSCO.

[Yuri]

Ok I did not want to interfere because I knew shannon would deal with this and gladly he did,

Though let me explain to you a thing or two about arrogance, when you come and degrade someones work and research and that work and research from the way you speak is as old as you are (i'm being generous here) with a defective methodology in use that is plain arrogance, saying that you need humanity at large to prove something is right or works then you better go and do some homework and perhaps a course or two in history would help too.

Now either go and actually "read" the testimonials and the success story's in journals and construct actual research on the subject and if you still have some doubts you can try some of the free subliminals or else simply stop responding with incoherent theories.

[mysterymagick]

Ok I did not want to interfere because I knew shannon would deal with this and gladly he did,

Though let me explain to you a thing or two about arrogance, when you come and degrade someones work and research and that work and research from the way you speak is as old as you are (i'm being generous here) with a defective methodology in use that is plain arrogance, saying that you need humanity at large to prove something is right or works then you better go and do some homework and perhaps a course or two in history would help too.

Now either go and actually "read" the testimonials and the success story's in journals and construct actual research on the subject and if you still have some doubts you can try some of the free subliminals or else simply stop responding with incoherent theories.

anecdotal and a small amount ofnpeople

[mysterymagick]

there is no scientific proofe even today they work

Actually, there's a lot. They are easy to find and many have been done in the last ten years. Use scholarly databases like EBSCO.

Ok thanks will look