Shannon's Journal Discussion Volume 3

[Have at ye]

@sarge You mean there's no other explanation that you can see or bring yourself to believe. Black and white thinking. "There are always reasons and options that are not obvious. Therefore, never make snap judgements."

If I get results immediately after using pua, it’s pretty obvious.

I don't know whether you will be open to know the truth or not, because you seem to reject most everything that points to the truth (surely unintentionally), but I'll try to point at it in some other way. Maybe you can start accepting these facts that you can't seem to see so far, but others who are aware of them, can see these from the way you talk.

PUA has worked for you because of bypassing the need for you to change your negative beliefs about yourself. You might have, but you won't find natural attraction, until those layers of negative beliefs about yourself (as a man) are (at least partly) cleared. When natural attraction does happen to you, you don't see it and therefore you can't use it to challenge your existing mindset.

This is a diagram to explain this:

You
---------- Negative faith about yourself
Women

In this situation above, you are doing nothing, and nothing seems to happen. You see no attraction whatsoever. What you can't see is the barrier that is blocking the possibility of any attraction.

Ok, I am going to disclose something about me. Everyone knows Sarge is a salesman. I am a marketer and we appear to be the strongest defender of PUA.

I do not think that this is a coincidence and I do not think that it is because we have negative belief about ourselves (at least for me but I am pretty sure Sarge feels the same).

It is because we use sales techniques and influence principles EVERYDAY and we see how mastering these tools is successful in influencing others. Mastering this skill can literally make or break our business. THAT is the belief we have. Those tools are effective.

Again, every time that I talk about this topic, I try very hard to use a lot nuance. I am not saying well, be fake and use gimmicks to convince a woman to sleep with you which will later have the buyer's remorse of having done what you lead her to.

It is very possible to be real and attractive AND still use those deep, proven, real, psychological influence principles to accelerate the outcome, to push someone who is on the fence about you in the right direction, and so on...

Yeah, most PUA aficionados have a background in marketing, as far as I can tell - especially those *selling* it.

I'm not saying these methods are not effective means of persuasion, but let me tell you - nobody likes being played or gamed, especially when they can see - plain as day - that they are being played or gamed. And attractive women, at least those who are not total morons, utter damage cases or very young and sheltered, can tell. They play this game all the time; you're trying to outgame them at what is, in essence, their behavioral survival mechanism.

I learned this, as per the usual, the hard way - as in, getting gamed until a point where I decided *no more*.

I now have a so called "bitch-shield", too, because of all that, lol.

EDIT

What I'd like to say is this - persuasion, when it's healthy and for the mutual benefit of both parties involved, is fine. Using persuasive tools to, in fact, CON someone, is not.