OF v2 or E4?

[THolt]

If you remove the fear you have only taken away the symptom.

I respectfully yet strongly disagree. On the contrary, I believe that fear is the root of most emotional issues (If I recall correctly Shannon said “all emotional issues”.)

Removing fear might not be sufficient to solve all emotional problems, which is why EPRHA exists, but it’s certainly necessary (which is why EPRHA includes FRM but I digress.)

Furthermore, London1 mentions lots of deep fears as his very first issue.

I can also assure you from personal experience that it’s hard to cultivate self esteem and acceptance of yourself if there is a (possibly subconscious) fear of being judged, being punished or being rejected for what you are.

I  genuinely believe that our default emotional state is love, and the lack thereof will manifest as fear in various forms such as anger, shame, hatred etc. Ive tried to heal my low self esteem for years, and the only thing that made difference is when I began accepting myself with compassion (which is super hard and takes time). OF does help with that because of the reasons you pointed out, but only removing fear without cultivating self love will not fix low self esteem imo, is what im saying.

Our default state is actually variable from person to person.  It depends on a lot of factors, some that are very complex.  Love is always the initial state, but rarely remains the default state after we start learning anything in life, and depends on the body and the personality to be experienced and expressed at the conscious level much more than modern psychology understands.  

Fear is the reverse of love.  It is always learned initially, and then imagined into existence later on in most cases, usually in response to subconscious fears.  

Fear is the root of every issue I have found that holds people back, and that is based on trying to find the source of the reason why people haven't always gotten good results from my subliminals.  It always, always traces back to fear.  Fear can spawn other emotional states, but anger is usually not a direct child of fear, but rather a direct child of frustration based on the restriction fear brings, coupled with a force that pushes against that restriction.  

Shame really is an entirely different emotion, and is not caused by fear at all, as far as I can tell, although they are usually learned together and they definitely support one another.  

Hate is usually the direct child of fear, an effort to remove whatever is threatening, especially if we see it within ourselves.  

Self esteem is not going to be affected by removing fear unless the fear is somehow triggering that state, and it is almost never going to be the case that low self esteem is the result of fear.  Fear is not the result of low self esteem, either, but there can be fears that result from other fears that are triggered by the low self esteem.

Low self esteem ALWAYS comes from one or more experiences that are interpreted in a way that results in beliefs which result in low self esteem.  This usually happens very early in life, and the interpretation and subsequent beliefs are usually very irrational and logically false.  That level of awareness cannot think logically very well.  

For example, I know a woman who has low self esteem because when she was very young, her parents would fight, and she interpreted this to mean that she had done something that made them mad, which she then concluded made her "guilty", "unworthy of love" and "a bad person".  She concluded also that because she was "bad" and "guilty", she deserved to be punished, so she subconsciously caused herself emotional pain and self sabotaged every time she was happy or succeeding.  This conclusion of "bad" and "guilty" and "deserving of punishment" was reached before she was 4 years old.  Not very logical, but it was the basis for all of her subsequent low self esteem, and no matter what she achieved in life, her self esteem did not improve until she started to change those initial beliefs.  Once she started changing those initial beliefs, everything else started to turn around in her life.  

Really, fear has very little to do with low self esteem in every case I have seen. 

Your experience with OF, you must remember that it is designed to work at your pace and work through things in a certain order.  Your speed of change may not be quick, and your order of operations may not be what you would like it to be, but the program is working, and given enough time, will get to the fears you would like it to deal with.  A major consideration is not causing more harm, which can easily happen if the program works too quickly or does things in the wrong order.

The same applies to E4 too in terms of pace. The program is slowly but surely rooting out all of your emotional problems. 

@Shannon would a run of OF after E4 be beneficial or would it better to stay the course and do another run of E4.

[Shannon]

If you remove the fear you have only taken away the symptom.

I respectfully yet strongly disagree. On the contrary, I believe that fear is the root of most emotional issues (If I recall correctly Shannon said “all emotional issues”.)

Removing fear might not be sufficient to solve all emotional problems, which is why EPRHA exists, but it’s certainly necessary (which is why EPRHA includes FRM but I digress.)

Furthermore, London1 mentions lots of deep fears as his very first issue.

I can also assure you from personal experience that it’s hard to cultivate self esteem and acceptance of yourself if there is a (possibly subconscious) fear of being judged, being punished or being rejected for what you are.

I  genuinely believe that our default emotional state is love, and the lack thereof will manifest as fear in various forms such as anger, shame, hatred etc. Ive tried to heal my low self esteem for years, and the only thing that made difference is when I began accepting myself with compassion (which is super hard and takes time). OF does help with that because of the reasons you pointed out, but only removing fear without cultivating self love will not fix low self esteem imo, is what im saying.

Our default state is actually variable from person to person.  It depends on a lot of factors, some that are very complex.  Love is always the initial state, but rarely remains the default state after we start learning anything in life, and depends on the body and the personality to be experienced and expressed at the conscious level much more than modern psychology understands.  

Fear is the reverse of love.  It is always learned initially, and then imagined into existence later on in most cases, usually in response to subconscious fears.  

Fear is the root of every issue I have found that holds people back, and that is based on trying to find the source of the reason why people haven't always gotten good results from my subliminals.  It always, always traces back to fear.  Fear can spawn other emotional states, but anger is usually not a direct child of fear, but rather a direct child of frustration based on the restriction fear brings, coupled with a force that pushes against that restriction.  

Shame really is an entirely different emotion, and is not caused by fear at all, as far as I can tell, although they are usually learned together and they definitely support one another.  

Hate is usually the direct child of fear, an effort to remove whatever is threatening, especially if we see it within ourselves.  

Self esteem is not going to be affected by removing fear unless the fear is somehow triggering that state, and it is almost never going to be the case that low self esteem is the result of fear.  Fear is not the result of low self esteem, either, but there can be fears that result from other fears that are triggered by the low self esteem.

Low self esteem ALWAYS comes from one or more experiences that are interpreted in a way that results in beliefs which result in low self esteem.  This usually happens very early in life, and the interpretation and subsequent beliefs are usually very irrational and logically false.  That level of awareness cannot think logically very well.  

For example, I know a woman who has low self esteem because when she was very young, her parents would fight, and she interpreted this to mean that she had done something that made them mad, which she then concluded made her "guilty", "unworthy of love" and "a bad person".  She concluded also that because she was "bad" and "guilty", she deserved to be punished, so she subconsciously caused herself emotional pain and self sabotaged every time she was happy or succeeding.  This conclusion of "bad" and "guilty" and "deserving of punishment" was reached before she was 4 years old.  Not very logical, but it was the basis for all of her subsequent low self esteem, and no matter what she achieved in life, her self esteem did not improve until she started to change those initial beliefs.  Once she started changing those initial beliefs, everything else started to turn around in her life.  

Really, fear has very little to do with low self esteem in every case I have seen. 

Your experience with OF, you must remember that it is designed to work at your pace and work through things in a certain order.  Your speed of change may not be quick, and your order of operations may not be what you would like it to be, but the program is working, and given enough time, will get to the fears you would like it to deal with.  A major consideration is not causing more harm, which can easily happen if the program works too quickly or does things in the wrong order.

English isnt my first language so when I said default state I meant the state which is prior to all other states, like our most primordial or original state. I think thats what you mean with initial state as well.

Correct.

And I wanted to clarify that the root cause to most emotional issues (note Emotional issues, not all issues) isnt fear as fab10 pointed out, that is missing the point tbh. Every emotion can be categorized into either positive or negative (love vs fear). And as we have pointed out love is the initial state, so most negative emotions are a result of being out of touch with that state. In other words shame, hatred, self directed anger, guilt etc in the grand sense is what manifests when we are lacking love, that is the root cause, not fear by itself. 

I think we have a miscommunication.  What I'm trying to say is not that fear is the cause of all negative emotions, but that it is the root cause of all of the reasons why people have failed to execute the instructions in my subliminal scripts.  So when someone uses one, and they get good results, they're not afraid of achieving the program's goal.  When they use one and it does not work well, it;s always because they have some fear somewhere that prevents them from carrying out those instructions to achieve the goal.  Either fear of thee goal itself, some step or steps to the goal, or the imagined consequences of achieving that step or the final goal.

My experience with OF has been fine and it has dealt with different subconscious fears of mine. Please dont interpret my posts as me complaining about the results, im actually content with what it has done so far. I was just explaining to london1 that to heal low self esteem, which was what I thought he really wanted, OF might not be the absolute best choice for that. I would rather go with something like E4 in that case.

I would agree with that assessment.

[fab10]

Ok so we are having some interesting debate and forgetting about the person.

The issues OP mentioned , in this order, are

“My issues again are lots of deep fears, moderate to severe social anxiety, shyness, very low confidence and self esteem, softness...”

[London1]

I respectfully yet strongly disagree. On the contrary, I believe that fear is the root of most emotional issues (If I recall correctly Shannon said “all emotional issues”.)

Removing fear might not be sufficient to solve all emotional problems, which is why EPRHA exists, but it’s certainly necessary (which is why EPRHA includes FRM but I digress.)

Furthermore, London1 mentions lots of deep fears as his very first issue.

I can also assure you from personal experience that it’s hard to cultivate self esteem and acceptance of yourself if there is a (possibly subconscious) fear of being judged, being punished or being rejected for what you are.

I  genuinely believe that our default emotional state is love, and the lack thereof will manifest as fear in various forms such as anger, shame, hatred etc. Ive tried to heal my low self esteem for years, and the only thing that made difference is when I began accepting myself with compassion (which is super hard and takes time). OF does help with that because of the reasons you pointed out, but only removing fear without cultivating self love will not fix low self esteem imo, is what im saying.

Our default state is actually variable from person to person.  It depends on a lot of factors, some that are very complex.  Love is always the initial state, but rarely remains the default state after we start learning anything in life, and depends on the body and the personality to be experienced and expressed at the conscious level much more than modern psychology understands.  

Fear is the reverse of love.  It is always learned initially, and then imagined into existence later on in most cases, usually in response to subconscious fears.  

Fear is the root of every issue I have found that holds people back, and that is based on trying to find the source of the reason why people haven't always gotten good results from my subliminals.  It always, always traces back to fear.  Fear can spawn other emotional states, but anger is usually not a direct child of fear, but rather a direct child of frustration based on the restriction fear brings, coupled with a force that pushes against that restriction.  

Shame really is an entirely different emotion, and is not caused by fear at all, as far as I can tell, although they are usually learned together and they definitely support one another.  

Hate is usually the direct child of fear, an effort to remove whatever is threatening, especially if we see it within ourselves.  

Self esteem is not going to be affected by removing fear unless the fear is somehow triggering that state, and it is almost never going to be the case that low self esteem is the result of fear.  Fear is not the result of low self esteem, either, but there can be fears that result from other fears that are triggered by the low self esteem.

Low self esteem ALWAYS comes from one or more experiences that are interpreted in a way that results in beliefs which result in low self esteem.  This usually happens very early in life, and the interpretation and subsequent beliefs are usually very irrational and logically false.  That level of awareness cannot think logically very well.  

For example, I know a woman who has low self esteem because when she was very young, her parents would fight, and she interpreted this to mean that she had done something that made them mad, which she then concluded made her "guilty", "unworthy of love" and "a bad person".  She concluded also that because she was "bad" and "guilty", she deserved to be punished, so she subconsciously caused herself emotional pain and self sabotaged every time she was happy or succeeding.  This conclusion of "bad" and "guilty" and "deserving of punishment" was reached before she was 4 years old.  Not very logical, but it was the basis for all of her subsequent low self esteem, and no matter what she achieved in life, her self esteem did not improve until she started to change those initial beliefs.  Once she started changing those initial beliefs, everything else started to turn around in her life.  

Really, fear has very little to do with low self esteem in every case I have seen. 

Your experience with OF, you must remember that it is designed to work at your pace and work through things in a certain order.  Your speed of change may not be quick, and your order of operations may not be what you would like it to be, but the program is working, and given enough time, will get to the fears you would like it to deal with.  A major consideration is not causing more harm, which can easily happen if the program works too quickly or does things in the wrong order.

English isnt my first language so when I said default state I meant the state which is prior to all other states, like our most primordial or original state. I think thats what you mean with initial state as well.

Correct.

And I wanted to clarify that the root cause to most emotional issues (note Emotional issues, not all issues) isnt fear as fab10 pointed out, that is missing the point tbh. Every emotion can be categorized into either positive or negative (love vs fear). And as we have pointed out love is the initial state, so most negative emotions are a result of being out of touch with that state. In other words shame, hatred, self directed anger, guilt etc in the grand sense is what manifests when we are lacking love, that is the root cause, not fear by itself. 

I think we have a miscommunication.  What I'm trying to say is not that fear is the cause of all negative emotions, but that it is the root cause of all of the reasons why people have failed to execute the instructions in my subliminal scripts.  So when someone uses one, and they get good results, they're not afraid of achieving the program's goal.  When they use one and it does not work well, it;s always because they have some fear somewhere that prevents them from carrying out those instructions to achieve the goal.  Either fear of thee goal itself, some step or steps to the goal, or the imagined consequences of achieving that step or the final goal.

My experience with OF has been fine and it has dealt with different subconscious fears of mine. Please dont interpret my posts as me complaining about the results, im actually content with what it has done so far. I was just explaining to london1 that to heal low self esteem, which was what I thought he really wanted, OF might not be the absolute best choice for that. I would rather go with something like E4 in that case.

I would agree with that assessment.

So wait...based on my problems in the first post which basically boils down to fear/anxiety/confusion around people and in social situations coupled with low self confidence and self esteem, I also suffer from aquired stuttering which makes the above even worse, do you think I should do an 8 month run of OF first or jump straight into E4?
I kind of, well, fear running E4 first and not have it work to a good extent because of underlying fears. I know I will have to eventually run E4 because OF will not deal with all of the self esteem issues.
The overlap is strong with this one

[fab10]

I am not the foremost expert here but I do stand by my earlier advice which, most importantly, was your first intuition before you started doubting yourself.

So yes, my advice is first OF and once you’re done with it decide what to do after that. Lots of things will probably change with OF and new products will come out. No need to worry about ‘after OF’ now.

[Shannon]

[snip]

So wait...based on my problems in the first post which basically boils down to fear/anxiety/confusion around people and in social situations coupled with low self confidence and self esteem, I also suffer from aquired stuttering which makes the above even worse, do you think I should do an 8 month run of OF first or jump straight into E4?
I kind of, well, fear running E4 first and not have it work to a good extent because of underlying fears. I know I will have to eventually run E4 because OF will not deal with all of the self esteem issues.
The overlap is strong with this one

There is really no "wrong choice" here.  Both options are good ones, for different reasons.  If you fear that E4 won't work because of fears, then it is reasonable to try to take care of your fears first.  On the other hand, that could be an indication that you have fear that it won't work as a way for your subconscious to pre-emptively try to avoid it because it will work.  

E4 is slightly less advanced technology, and slightly less powerful than OFv2, but both of them are monstrously powerful and incredibly advanced.  I suggest you follow your gut on this one.