MHS, I bailed out

[JackOfHearts]

i feel you man. i danced my ass off on saturday, and i'm still sore on tuesday.

i have more back pain than before i started MHS.

only things i can think of is that my listening setup isn't optimal (which is true, because i use speakers instead of headphones most nights), OR that sub is focusing the energy in areas that take more priority than what we're expecting.

there are also TINY changes that I wouldn't have recognized if i wasn't paying attention. Not to mention I'm not very in tune with my internals, so I could be missing a lot more than I realize.

What's your MBTI type, alpha360?

I tried to do the test on different websites and I always found some of the question strange and I felt unable to answer correctly between some of them. It reminded me of the IQ test I took when in high school, and like those I always found them too restricted to really defined intelligence. Like every system that rely on the individual to guess who they are, with questions and other tricky stuff, I feel it's biased to begin with. In short unreliable to me.

But looking at the definition of the different MBTI I identify myself mostly with the ENTP type. I personally think the MBTI is too inaccurate for my taste though.
This is maybe because I use another system already, but I have used other system like writing analysis and I feel like they are less up to chance or inaccuracy.
I also use face reading like Shannon and I think it's less up to chance when you see someone face than using those letters to fit people into. Those letters may not even described some behavior that exist to begin with. I read some of the writing about Carl Jung and how he created that MBTI system and my doubt went through the roof, from that I would guess he is not even the one who came up with the system, he copied another system and broke it down so he doesn't look like the original. But even that system he copied is not even the full system to begin with, it's just a very small part and it's not used correctly, that is maybe why I couldn't answer some questions. But knowing what that system is I can understand why it's so popular because there is indeed some very good stuff in it but the way it is used mostly remove any real benefit to me. It's like walking blind, and I don't like walking blind.

But just to give an example I feel I know more about someone if I know they have a square face than asking them what MBTI they are or trying to guess what MBTI they are. I don't trust what they say.

[Shannon]

I thought Testimonials could be negative too. I may come back to MHS another time or in another life

I was wondering if it could be due to my belief.

I remember an old event about 5 years ago, some kind of event I'm not allowed to talk due to rules but basically it was a healing session and I think I was the only one that it didn't work on. Mostly because I had to believe in it and I didn't at all.

Does MHS has some kind of scripting like "everything is possible" ?

By definition, a testimonial is someone testifying that something is good, as described, woks, etc. A review can be positive, neutral or negative. A testimonial is always positive, to varying degrees of magnitude.

MHS 5.5G does not have EIP directly in the script, but there is another script section that is related. EIP was added to the skeleton script after MHS came out.

[eternity]

IF you're an ENTP, it would validate a hunch of mine that you might be as oblivious to what's going on in the inside as I am.

Both ENTP & ENFP have an "inferior function" known as Si - Introverted Sensing.

Inferior functions are part of your cognitive function stack, but are extremely underdeveloped. In the case of our underdeveloped Si, we have a hard time identifying what's going on inside our bodies. for instance, i could have a headache for a few hours before i realize i'm having a headache! i'm just not naturally in tune with what's going on with my senses.

I don't mean to try to speak FOR you when I say that you may also be experiencing this. But the knowledge of my inferior function (si) and how it holds me back sounds like it could also apply to you. That you're an ENTP, sharing the same inferior function, makes it doubly so.

Correct me if i'm wrong here

[Blacksheep]

(....)

[JackOfHearts]

IF you're an ENTP, it would validate a hunch of mine that you might be as oblivious to what's going on in the inside as I am.

Both ENTP & ENFP have an "inferior function" known as Si - Introverted Sensing.

Inferior functions are part of your cognitive function stack, but are extremely underdeveloped. In the case of our underdeveloped Si, we have a hard time identifying what's going on inside our bodies. for instance, i could have a headache for a few hours before i realize i'm having a headache! i'm just not naturally in tune with what's going on with my senses.

I don't mean to try to speak FOR you when I say that you may also be experiencing this. But the knowledge of my inferior function (si) and how it holds me back sounds like it could also apply to you. That you're an ENTP, sharing the same inferior function, makes it doubly so.

Correct me if i'm wrong here

I can't relate to what you are talking. I usually feel what is going inside though I wouldn't say it's a perfect thing. If I eat too much I go right away to the toilet, the pain come really fast.
I used to be oblivious to my environment before doing subs but I was quiet aware of myself. I would be more naturally ultra sensitive to everything that affect my body, like the tinnitus reaction I got from sound, or like fainting after a little scratch


I may not be an ENTP then I would say I used to be INTP before subs.

The ENTP is the "nerd" right?

Anyway I don't feel like the MBTI is precise enough, I'm not convinced by any means. At best it's better than IQ rating or other stuff used in schools but far from the tools I use. Chaos seems to be very good at using MBTI but as far as I can see it's more due to his skill of detection than the MBTI itself, exactly like the guy I watched who taught the MBTI on youtube. At best the MBTI seems to help you know the different kind of personality that exist but the hardest work matching those personality with people is more up to you than the MBTI system. That's where it is biased the most in my opinion, other system on that are not perfect either but do a better job in my opinion. Most people don't know who they really are so asking them question doesn't seem to be the best thing to do.

Did you know the Introversion and Extraversion definition seems to match exactly the Yin Yang definition?
That's one of the reasons I think the MBTI is a copy cat of another system.
But it would be hard to tell others than they are more Yin than Yang, people would feel upset, because Yin is associated with female.
I think it would be particularly hard to for some people to feel that they are more intraverted than extraverted after knowing that.

[Blink]

IF you're an ENTP, it would validate a hunch of mine that you might be as oblivious to what's going on in the inside as I am.

Both ENTP & ENFP have an "inferior function" known as Si - Introverted Sensing.

Inferior functions are part of your cognitive function stack, but are extremely underdeveloped. In the case of our underdeveloped Si, we have a hard time identifying what's going on inside our bodies. for instance, i could have a headache for a few hours before i realize i'm having a headache! i'm just not naturally in tune with what's going on with my senses.

I don't mean to try to speak FOR you when I say that you may also be experiencing this. But the knowledge of my inferior function (si) and how it holds me back sounds like it could also apply to you. That you're an ENTP, sharing the same inferior function, makes it doubly so.

Correct me if i'm wrong here

I can't relate to what you are talking. I usually feel what is going inside though I wouldn't say it's a perfect thing. If I eat too much I go right away to the toilet, the pain come really fast.
I used to be oblivious to my environment before doing subs but I was quiet aware of myself. I would be more naturally ultra sensitive to everything that affect my body, like the tinnitus reaction I got from sound, or like fainting after a little scratch


I may not be an ENTP then I would say I used to be INTP before subs.

The ENTP is the "nerd" right?

Anyway I don't feel like the MBTI is precise enough, I'm not convinced by any means. At best it's better than IQ rating or other stuff used in schools but far from the tools I use. Chaos seems to be very good at using MBTI but as far as I can see it's more due to his skill of detection than the MBTI itself, exactly like the guy I watched who taught the MBTI on youtube. At best the MBTI seems to help you know the different kind of personality that exist but the hardest work matching those personality with people is more up to you than the MBTI system. That's where it is biased the most in my opinion, other system on that are not perfect either but do a better job in my opinion. Most people don't know who they really are so asking them question doesn't seem to be the best thing to do.

Did you know the Introversion and Extraversion definition seems to match exactly the Yin Yang definition?
That's one of the reasons I think the MBTI is a copy cat of another system.
But it would be hard to tell others than they are more Yin than Yang, people would feel upset, because Yin is associated with female.
I think it would be particularly hard to for some people to feel that they are more intraverted than extraverted after knowing that.

Keep in mind that it tells you your preferred personality type, the one you exhibit most under normal circumstances, and it's not set in stone. There are currently 16 types identified in MBTI, and you exhibit the behavior of each one of them to some extent and different emotional states bring out different types in you. Think about how you behave when you're under stress compared to when you're feeling confident. They could well be totally different types.

It could be a copy of another system or it could not. That would not invalidate it. There are lots of examples where people explain the same exact thing in different ways. And that's probably because of the fact that people perceive and judge information in different ways, which is what MBTI is trying to explain. Hope that makes sense

Having said that, I'm no expert on this. The information I've got so far about it is what I've gathered from different internet pages. The topic is so fascinating to me though and I plan to read the original work on it very soon.

[eternity]

yeah MBTI can appear to be inaccurate and have fallacies (which i'm sure it probably does!) until you really start to break down the cognitive functions. As with any system, you'd need to immerse yourself in it to properly understand it. As with you and astrology. It's much deeper than the 4 letters you see in your "ENTP"

I am more open to possibilities and the unknown/abstract by nature. So I will take a new system and run with it until I get bored of it. It can be borderline obsession. Astrology was that way for a few years when I studied it, but it got too complicated to keep my interest. Lately it's been MBTI, and I started learning more about it after talking with Chaos. And it's NOT what most people think. Each letter in your 4 letter combination reflects a cognitive function as described by Carl Jung (yo, I really hope you're not talking smack about one of the world's most renowned psychologists, alpha360!!! ) The way you process information and relay information back to the world goes through those 4 functions, IN THAT ORDER. Think of it more as a functional analysis of the way your mind works, rather than a "personality type"

And sure, I definitely agree that N/S and I/E etc. are examples of yin yang, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're copycats. If you're familiar with the principle of gender, you'll see that there is a duality in everything. It's a construct of the physical universe we live in. It's not one copying from another.

You brought up Chaos' detection skill, but that itself can be explained as a manifestation of Ti Ne, which are his primary cognitive functions. Well developed INTP's are very much like this. Shannon is a good example of a well developed INTP, and his skill of detection can easily be seen by his insane precision in how to make subs that will affect people safely.

[edited due to rules]

At the end of the day, these systems are in place for understanding the world. You're free to use whichever one you want, and you're free to be skeptical about those that you don't use.

but if it's something you're open to explore, I'd recommend taking the MBTI test in a couple different websites, and see if you test out as ENTP on all of them. The reason being that you can understand how your brain processes information. Or not, it's up to you XD

[JackOfHearts]

I think it's always good to express some doubts with everything you learn, it's
fun to share things with you. And I'm learning at the same time since I studied your chart a lot.

Here is your answer for astrology
http://subliminal-talk.com/newreply.php?tid=8008

But about Carl Jung, well I haven't studied him a lot, but I don't agree some of the things I read from him. And what is worse is that he believed astrology works as well, which would mean we should agree.
But I think he did a poor job and as of now his psychology seems obsolete to me, renowned or not, I don't really care, if what he said doesn't make sense I'm not going to praise him I don't think he was the Nikola Tesla of psychology.
And the MBTI from I have read so far seems bent in a direction that doesn't reflect the reality to me, I do understand that it's more complicated that the 4 letters. What doesn't match to me are his definition of sensing, intuition, etc. For example in INTP or ENTP, the N stand for intuition.

"ENTP PERSONALITY (“THE DEBATER”)

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ’crack-pot’ than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost."
https://www.16personalities.com/entp-personality

I have a hard time imagining someone like described above using his intuition as his primary function or behavior or ability or even his secondary function. Unless you redefine the term intuition to begin with. The term intuition is commonly known to be something females use mainly. In astrology it's different though as it's basically your inspiration, your thought directly linked to the super subconscious mind that knows everything, I don't remember how it was term by Shannon exactly but I think it was " super subconscious mind" or something like that.

[Ivaylo]

Hey Alpha,

About the intuitive thing...

Intuition in terms of MBTI means ability to think in abstract terms. The implication being that by understanding the underlying abstract laws of how reality works, you can "intuit" certain things.

Regarding your question about INTP - yeah, logic is linear, while intuition is not. Regardless, every useful logical structure has to be "downloaded" from the non-linear domain, otherwise it's highly likely it won't be relevant and practical.

Thus, the most brilliant scientists who change our understanding of the universe are almost exclusively intuitive. The guys who seem interested in science, but who actually take the scientific method as the only gospel truth and fail to see its shortcomings - those are largely sensors. (of course, the opposite is not necessarily true)

Hopefully that makes sense.

[eternity]

Awesome, you bring up some valid points actually and unfortunately, it's a common misconception in MBTI

Intuition in the case you're describing it needs to be given a direction. Is the intuition directed outward (extroverted) or inward (introverted)?

xNTP's have intuition directed outward (Ne). But it doesn't stop there. there are other functions to consider, as they all work together. ENTP's secondary function is Introverted Thinking (Ti). Ne and Ti almost always go hand in hand. Ne gathers data from the outside world, and Ti turns that data through the mechanical gears of the logical mind. This helps the ENTP understand processes VERY effectively. Of course, now we've only gotten into 2 of the 4 functions. The ENTP is very intelligent, and is verbally precise because of the natural way data from the world can be processed by logical thinking. There are another 2 in the ENTP stack that I'm still learning how they operate in the ENTP framework.

ENFP's have Ne Fi -- Extroverted Intuition -> Introverted Feeling.

So ENFP's will take data from the outside world, and cross reference that with personal values, beliefs, and emotions. This helps us easily identify emotional states which make us very likeable, since we can pick up on certain cues. You may see ENFP described as "Campaigner", but there's another source that describes ENFP as "Inspirer" which I believe is a far more effective title. When I speak, my words hit people's hearts. When ENTP speaks, their words hit people's minds.

So Intuition in the MBTI isn't used the same way it's used outside of MBTI. Intuition can be pointed in 2 different ways, and is always paired with a secondary function which adds yet another variable to how the intuition works in an individual. Think about it like this: Intuition is the Moon, but you need to know about Mars and Jupiter to properly know how the Moon is affecting you. Likewise, intuition is just N. But you need to know the direction it faces, and what it's companion is.

It's different ways of processing and then relaying information. I do notice that even though you are skeptical and doubtful, you still allow yourself the chance to try to understand it so that's awesome. hope that makes a little bit of sense!

[Ivaylo]

I think the term intuition from MBTI when it was used by Carl Jung at first was directly taken from astrology but it was not explain well enough or that Carl Jung didn't understood it or that he changed the definition on purpose. Who knows but the system seem too close to be coincidence yet the way the letter are used contradict some basic principles of astrology. But the first 3 letters directly have their correspondence in the triplicity of Sign from astrology.
But a lot of stuff doesn't match otherwise.

Well, it's a different cut on reality. Maybe less precise and a bit more generalized than astrology, but also different. That makes it useful in different ways.

Either way, there might be some concepts that are the same in both. Still, I don't think you can draw parallels between the two before you've understood each of them by itself in depth. (obviously you already know astrology)

IMO, trying to see the underlying common concepts before you understood MBTI as a complete system in its own right... would be insanely inaccurate to do for almost any person.

[Benjamin]

Why do you guys keep doing it if you KNOW and even in the post make a comment towards me about it?

Is it that hard to just stick to it? Why create more work for me when you KNOW about the rules? Second person in 2 days whose done this.

[JackOfHearts]

I just deleted them and posted them here.

http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-8008-p...#pid166577

It's hard to follow those rules when they seems unfair, though I understand why Shannon does it.

[Benjamin]

Thanks.

It may, but as you said it's here for a reason. Sometimes we have enough arguments without certain subjects that tend to inevitably cause conflict. And we are pretty open here in general with expression in other areas.