Insights into the creation process.

[Andrew]

Hi everyone,

Per our decision on 10/29/2012 to ban any mention of religion on the forum, we are opening up this single thread in which anyone is allowed to mention, discuss, and relate with others in how their religion(s) and subliminals/self help/etc apply in their lives.

Make sure "discussions" are not arguments. Do not infer anyone else's beliefs to be false. Do not participate in discussion without humility. This forum is primarily here for us to support each other and gain insight. We realize religion is a major factor in many of our lives so we offer this one and only thread in which everyone can discuss religious topics for enrichment and consensus building only.

Thank you!

[Yuri]

*uck yeah thank you for listening, i'm sure this was not only my suggestion and i'm very glad this is what it turned out to be.

[Subeternal]

I'll kick off the thread

If every instance of life has a certain progress or lesson meant to be achieved and/or ascertained how do you know that you've accomplished that? Or is this one of those "you must look within yourself" for decades as the whole idea unfolds to you.

[Benjamin]

Very cool Subeternal,
Through working with EFT I have had experience with that myself. But the way I see that I don't really think it's religious but I will put it here anyway.

When your a child you have certain things happening to you that effect you for all of your life unless you find a way to deal with them. For example I am adopted and I had alot of insecurities and sadness and such around that and was never able to stay with a girl longer than 3 months. I still tell girls I don't want a relationship and i've never been in 1 that i've actually been fully happy with just that person. It's got alot better since doing some good internal work, but I don't feel like I want a committed relationship. The difference now is I am honest about it with the girls.

But because basically in my mind my real mother abandoned me.. whenever it starts going towards something more serious all of a sudden I get really worried, want to get out of it and lose all attraction for the girl. Like even a few days before everything could be okay, but then she wants to take it to something more serious and I suddenly lose attraction to her. I haven't solved that and I don't know if I want to, I more want to get myself established first before thinking of any of that. But it has improved by letting go of some of that stuff from my childhood.

The other major pattern that I have mostly solved is getting bullied and attracting violence. All throughout school I was picked on, bullied etc which brought me to learn how to fight and drew me to security so I could learn how to deal with aggressive people. I learnt to deal with it and become more comfortable with it, but it was fucking me up. I was going too far to the other side and over reacting and because of that and also my 'point of attraction' that was attracting this stuff to me (because of something in my past I hadn't learnt or dealt with) but the problem was it just kept getting more serious because I wasn't listening. It ended up in the most scary situation of my life outside of work that caused me issues for a long time and made me stack on alot more weight.

In the end I calmed down and it balanced out alot more and I attracted alot less of this. (Alpha 2011 helped alot).

But I was too scared to get out of that job completely.. but something kept telling me I had to do it. Unfortunately I ended up being put in hospital one night on the job and had anxiety and a bad memory for several months. But now I see it more as a positive thing. It got me out of there and put me on the path of doing my own thing. I feel alot more relaxed and better not being in it. And I am glad I stopped myself going down the dark path that I started to, I was self aware enough to stop it, but I still see guys who have done it much longer than me stuck in it.

But there may be still something there, because I still get this urge occasionally, I miss the excitement, and I have to control myself sometimes when i'm out and somebody is really asking for it like abusing my mates working security or whatever. And I keep getting the urge to go back.

I let my license expire on purpose so I don't. So it's either there is something else for me to learn or the other thing I accepted that maybe this actually is a natural masculine desire that I don't have to act upon unless I really have to (self defense). It is demonized these days but it makes sense to me.

So basically my answer is, you have learnt it when it stops happening, when you stop attracting the same thing into your life.

But if you don't listen.. it just gets much more serious. Like me going from getting bullied and schoolyard fights to things much more serious.

One thing that really interests me if the theory of 'darkside psychology'. Which is basically all those things about yourself that you hide away, and don't want to look at or acknowledge. The power of it is apparently when you look into that and learn to accept it instead of trying to hide and get rid of it. Because when you try to push it down it usually comes out in unhealthy ways. Hence one of my things is when I can is do martial arts training in my shed. But it's hard to find people as I somehow scare them off.

Anyway, I didn't go into any religion as I can't really relate what you asked to that. But those are my thoughts. Hopefully it gets you thinking.

-Ben

[Subeternal]

Very cool Subeternal,
Through working with EFT I have had experience with that myself. But the way I see that I don't really think it's religious but I will put it here anyway.

When your a child you have certain things happening to you that effect you for all of your life unless you find a way to deal with them. For example I am adopted and I had alot of insecurities and sadness and such around that and was never able to stay with a girl longer than 3 months. I still tell girls I don't want a relationship and i've never been in 1 that i've actually been fully happy with just that person. It's got alot better since doing some good internal work, but I don't feel like I want a committed relationship. The difference now is I am honest about it with the girls.

But because basically in my mind my real mother abandoned me.. whenever it starts going towards something more serious all of a sudden I get really worried, want to get out of it and lose all attraction for the girl. Like even a few days before everything could be okay, but then she wants to take it to something more serious and I suddenly lose attraction to her. I haven't solved that and I don't know if I want to, I more want to get myself established first before thinking of any of that. But it has improved by letting go of some of that stuff from my childhood.

The other major pattern that I have mostly solved is getting bullied and attracting violence. All throughout school I was picked on, bullied etc which brought me to learn how to fight and drew me to security so I could learn how to deal with aggressive people. I learnt to deal with it and become more comfortable with it, but it was ***** me up. I was going too far to the other side and over reacting and because of that and also my 'point of attraction' that was attracting this stuff to me (because of something in my past I hadn't learnt or dealt with) but the problem was it just kept getting more serious because I wasn't listening. It ended up in the most scary situation of my life outside of work that caused me issues for a long time and made me stack on alot more weight.

In the end I calmed down and it balanced out alot more and I attracted alot less of this. (Alpha 2011 helped alot).

But I was too scared to get out of that job completely.. but something kept telling me I had to do it. Unfortunately I ended up being put in hospital one night on the job and had anxiety and a bad memory for several months. But now I see it more as a positive thing. It got me out of there and put me on the path of doing my own thing. I feel alot more relaxed and better not being in it. And I am glad I stopped myself going down the dark path that I started to, I was self aware enough to stop it, but I still see guys who have done it much longer than me stuck in it.

But there may be still something there, because I still get this urge occasionally, I miss the excitement, and I have to control myself sometimes when i'm out and somebody is really asking for it like abusing my mates working security or whatever. And I keep getting the urge to go back.

I let my license expire on purpose so I don't. So it's either there is something else for me to learn or the other thing I accepted that maybe this actually is a natural masculine desire that I don't have to act upon unless I really have to (self defense). It is demonized these days but it makes sense to me.

So basically my answer is, you have learnt it when it stops happening, when you stop attracting the same thing into your life.

But if you don't listen.. it just gets much more serious. Like me going from getting bullied and schoolyard fights to things much more serious.

One thing that really interests me if the theory of 'darkside psychology'. Which is basically all those things about yourself that you hide away, and don't want to look at or acknowledge. The power of it is apparently when you look into that and learn to accept it instead of trying to hide and get rid of it. Because when you try to push it down it usually comes out in unhealthy ways. Hence one of my things is when I can is do martial arts training in my shed. But it's hard to find people as I somehow scare them off.

Anyway, I didn't go into any religion as I can't really relate what you asked to that. But those are my thoughts. Hopefully it gets you thinking.

-Ben

Your post helped me a lot even though you may not know what I'm getting at. I was making reference to reincarnation and the repeating theme of the idea that you have to make a certain amount of progress in that instance of life or else you'll end up doing it over and over again.

My whole life has been that. Never stopped happening, I kept on attracting damage to myself and where I'm at now I think its done. I think you can only do "stupid" things for so long without ending up dead or in life threatening situations.

[Subeternal]

Why is euthanizing and suicide considered such a no no in terms of religion. If a person knows they're going to die soon or be pretty much helpless for the next 6-24 months before dieing anyway whats the point. Does dieing from whatever is killing you or making your body fail make it more honorable?
Does being a matyr towards your own suffering some how make your life more complete in death.

I know there are exceptions that can be made in both directions. Its a depressing subject so I dunno if anyone is going to willing to delve into it which is okay with me.

[Yuri]

Why is euthanizing and suicide considered such a no no in terms of religion. If a person knows they're going to die soon or be pretty much helpless for the next 6-24 months before dieing anyway whats the point. Does dieing from whatever is killing you or making your body fail make it more honorable?
Does being a matyr towards your own suffering some how make your life more complete in death.

I know there are exceptions that can be made in both directions. Its a depressing subject so I dunno if anyone is going to willing to delve into it which is okay with me.

interesting topic sub, I'm going to elaborate on this from my religion point of view later on.

now my biggest question that came to me was what the hell where they teaching us in schools about religion?

from what i have experienced in class rooms it was all about memorizing things and being graded on them.... and now i have been going through our true religion's teachings and this is what i find.

“Who is the most favored of God He from whom the greatest good cometh to His creatures.”

“He who helpeth his fellow-creature in the hour of need, and he who helpeth the oppressed, him will God help in the Day of Travail.”

“Ye will not enter Paradise until ye have faith, and ye will not complete your faith until ye love one another.”

“No man hath believed perfectly, until he wish for his brother that which he wisheth for himself.”

and there's a lot more than this in all honesty how can this be graded? if they actually just planted the seeds of those words only into the young this world would be a paradise by now, this is just confusing to me...

[Yuri]

“Verily the reward is as great as the misfortune that is, the more unfortunate and calamitous one is, the greater and more perfect his reward. And verily, when God loveth a people, He entangleth it in misfortune therefore, he who is resigned to the pleasure of God, in misfortune, for him is God's favor.”

this is my answer for you sub.

[RainbowAbyss]

I agree right on with Ben.
We assimilated emotional imprints, patterns, and wounds
as children during the first 7 years of our life.
This emotional imprint becomes like a blueprint for our experience of life,
our responses and emotional experiences of life, our filters for how we perceive life,
and our reoccurring issues, limitations, relationships, and assumptions we are swimming in.
For anyone involved in conscious growth at some point or another it becomes fairly apparent
that there are patterns that continue to show up again and again, trigger us, make us ask "why me, why does this keep happening to me." Whether its always turning away when faced with commitment, being bullied, people consistently betraying you, self sabatogen etc.
There are three ways I like to look at this secular, present or interconnected/ divine
1. Secular- Is very simply, as language and thinking develops the emotional imprint influences it to create a very specific filter which it continues to reinforce, rationalize, and seek evidence for in the outside world. I.E. If you break a dish while playing in the house and get screamed at.. you might on some deep level feel playing is bad, or that items are worth more than your well being etc. As time goes on one becomes increasingly identified with that pattern or condition as who they are, options in perception become increasingly diminished, those situations and circumstances which reinforce and relate to that identity continue to reoccur in perception and therefore in the experiential reality of that individual. Theie behavior and emotions become increasingly reflective of that identity which makes them perfect matches

[RainbowAbyss]

I agree right on with Ben. Rant:
We assimilated emotional imprints, patterns, and wounds
as children during the first 7 years of our life
This emotional imprint becomes like a blueprint for our experience of life,
our responses and emotional reactions in life, our filters for how we perceive life,
and our reoccurring issues, limitations, relationships, and assumptions in our experience of life. We think we're in control but
were usually spinning in circles, even if were shuffling the cards of our outside circumstances were still running the same on the inside. To me God is what is beyond our self identity spinning circles of conditioning. Its the part of ourselves that is beyond that and that same part connected to all life and reality. To me, God is simply reality beyond one's conditioned framework.
For anyone involved in conscious growth at some point or another it becomes fairly apparent
that there are patterns that continue to show up again and again, trigger us, make us ask "why me, why does this keep happening to me." Whether its always turning away when faced with commitment, being bullied, people consistently betraying you, self sabatoge etc.
There are three ways I like to look at why these re-occurrences happen secular, present or interconnected/ divine
1. Secular- Is very simply, as language and thinking develops the emotional imprint influences it to create a very specific filter which it continues to reinforce, rationalize, and seek evidence for in the outside world. I.E. If you break a dish while playing in the house and get screamed at.. you might on some deep level feel playing is bad, or that items are worth more than your humanity etc. Throughout life this person might continue to find that when faced with just letting loose they might have difficulty and might on some level feel no problem hurting someone's feelings to get an item they want. As time goes on one becomes increasingly identified with that pattern or condition as who they are, options in perception become increasingly diminished, those situations and circumstances which reinforce and relate to that identity continue to reoccur in perception and therefore in the experiential reality of that individual. Their behavior and emotions become increasingly reflective of that identity which makes them almost unconsciously 'look for' ways to reinforce it further. There not actually looking for it but their filters become their blinders.
2. Present-interconnected. This is similar to secular but the difference is that the emotional imprint is essentially an energetic charge. Negative reoccurring circumstances or patterns are essentially drawn to the specifics of the negative emotional charge. The fear of being bullied is literally a specific energy that the fear that leads to needing to bully is drawn to. This occurs via the divine orchestra of the present moment, and assumes the inter connected-ness of all reality/life/the world. Even deeper is the fact that any negative personal experience, even through some very obvious outside circumstance, is really just a manifestation of the repeating of the negative charge in the past.
3. Divine- We all have core soul qualities and we are put on this earth to have that soul quality fully expressed in who we are and our lives, to be it, live from it, find our purpose moment to moment from it, make relationships from that place etc. Our early wounds always become reflections of the 'darkside' of those core qualities. We start living from defense of our core natures and this defense is what creates a life that feels unfilled and off to down right hell. Even worse we think to succeed in the world we have to adopt false core qualities...so now there is a false quality, that won't really fulfill us, even if we are successful with it, and it usually won't be effective since it is layered on top of a defense of a real core quality anyway. The purpose in life becomes finding out who we really are core. All self development, growth, etc. in my opinion is in someone a process of living from our core quality, which benefits us as it does everyone around us, through whatever service our core quality leads us to as well as our energetic presence of living in the core makes it easier for others to do the same.
For example there are those whose core soul quality is all about achievement and mastery, they have everything accounted for down to a tee, they see the big picture in ways others can't and know how to guide and foster the potential in others, as well as be a pioneer in whatever field they are in, setting the bar for what can be accomplished or done. Their whole body, mind, and energy, and designed to do that and love doing it. But if there living in their defense, or there darkside, they might keep feeling nothing is ever enough, they never did good enough, they burn themselves out trying to hard, they forget about relationships or life for the sake of a goal, their super critical of themselves and others, instead of finding an integration and active rejuvenation.
Basically I think one has accomplished whatever lesson is showing up by being and knowing how to live from a the quality of being that actually fulfills one and is showing up as them living a life that feels entirely fulfilling to them when being completely self honest.

[Shannon]

To remain in line with our rules on religion, I elect to answer this posting here.

Great stuff Shannon! I saw the product description in the old store and was curious about the program after reading it. I'm sure you've heard of the "collective unconscious", the premise that our minds are perhaps connected to either a.) a collective pool of thoughts shared by all (from what I hear, this is how the perfect lover programs operate) or b.) are the memories from our ancestors.

About 2-3 years ago, you suggested that when a soul is in the body of a Scorp, it does so because it has a difficult lesson to learn (this is assuming the person believes in some sort of reincarnation) so I thought to myself "well jeez, I wonder what the heck I was doing in my past life that warranted me being in this body". On top of that, I thought it would be cool to know how I lived in the past just to put everything in perspective. Perhaps I was a rich snob who didn't learn to appreciate things so I'm stuck in this body in order to learn about gratitude.

The misconception of reincarnation and karma continues, unsurprisingly. Karma is not a "punishment" device. It is a device for achieving balance where actions have been taken that are other than the path to the ultimate goal of the soul, or the lessons chosen for one particular lifetime. For instance, if I shoot a man in the head, and doing so is not a balancing of a previous action, then I have incurred karmic debt to that effect which must be cleared through wisdom. Wisdom is most commonly gained through like experience received. That is not, however, to say that a karmic choice is limited to re-balancing the scales of something experienced or done in a past life.

It is entirely possible, and happens regularly, that a soul may elect to incur a karmic debt before birth, to force itself to focus on a specific lesson or lessons in a given lifetime, especially if there is a great difficulty in that lesson for that soul. You might choose, for instance, to have no arms in order to experience what that is like proactively instead of reactively (chopping off someone else's arms, and having that experience to repay as a debt). You might choose to be born poor and downtrodden to focus on learning humility. And so forth.

Choosing a body born at a specific time, according to astrological theory, is to choose a body that is somehow tied to or attuned to and reverberates with the energy of the moment if was drawing its first breath. That act has with it many complex connotations, which I could write several books upon the philosophical, theological and theoretical "finer points" concerning. To put it shortly, then, being born when the Sun appeared to be "in Scorpio" from the Earth based perspective is not only overly simplistic (as the entire solar system must be accounted for to describe a personality as accurately as possible), but does not assume any particular action or previous karmic debt therefrom.

As to the collective unconscious, it is my belief, based on experiments and experience, that consciousness exists in a complex presence which is most easily (although not very accurately) understood as perhaps we could say "layers". The lowest layer is the simplest, and that would be the individuation layer, in which one awareness does not seem to be connected to another.

The next "higher" level of consciousness, for lack of a better word, would be the complex structures that comprise the subconscious awareness. This level is individual still, but has access to the layer above it, the "collective awareness", which is where all of the apparently individual awarenesses on the planet converge into one. This is controversial, as there are three major points of view on this:

1. It does not exist.
   
2. It exists as two separate sub-layers, being the "soul group" layer and the "collective planetary" layer.
   
3. It exists only as the collective planetary awareness conglomeration of the minds present on that planet.
   

The specifics are unimportant on this. My experience has at least strongly suggested that there indeed is some sort of collective awareness, or if not that, some sort of way of accessing information about all the awarenesses present on the planet.

My belief is that the "Perfect Lover" type manifestation subliminals do indeed cause the subconscious to use the "superconscious" (planetary conglomerated awareness) in order to know what, who, where and when as is necessary to achieve the desired goal.

The next higher awareness would seem to be the Universal Awareness, that which is suggested as the awareness of All That Is.

Hope this helps clear up some things.

[Cortez]

Interesting, Shannon. You know, I still have that "Attract your perfect red headed sexual lover" sub I picked up during one of your sales. I may just have to use that sometimes soon to test this theory out. All in the name of experimentation, right?

[Shannon]

Eventually, all of the manifestation subs will be based on OE. Then, use with caution, cause it will drag your *** through anything and everything to get there. The effects XM had on me are still being discovered, and amazing me.

[K-Train]

Cortez I too had been toying with the idea of rebooting an AYPL especially since now my patience has been drastically improved after completing 3 subs this year, each one for 120 days. But the possibility of them being redone with the Optimus Engine, along with Shannon's suggestions, has gave me pause for thought. Part of me wants to ignore Shannon's suggestions and do it anyway but after 2 years I've learned that Shannon usually knows what he's talking about . But CURIOUSITY IS KILLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNG Meh!!!

Now, if these subs get OE, will this cause us to do any...crazy stuff? In other words, let's say I choose an AYPL sub, the target is currently in Nevada (I'm in Florida). So will OE actually guide my decisions so that I move to Nevada and "hunt" down the target? Regardless of what I was doing at the time? Sounds interesting and slightly scary at the same time. Although I could certaintly see how meeting your perfect Nympho would be much easier in Nevada lol.

Oh and by the way Shannon, thanks for expounding on the reincarnation concept, I really appreciate it. Have you by any chance heard of "lag" when it comes to reincarnation? The belief that it typically takes a soul a certain amount of time to choose a new body?