HOY-Because I HAD to try it...

[Shannon]

Hi Shannon,
Your thoughts are intriguing and I will attempt to do this, just not sure about how to figure out what 'part' of me is limiting and then how to actually engage it. Sounds kind of like self-hypnosis which I am, admittedly, not tremendous at. I know how to hypnotize others and I'm pretty good at it. I use hypnotic languaging (w/o trance) with myself all the time with more-or-less good success.
It is funny that you talk about part of me being fearful for a couple reasons: 1) I have a pretty good level of courage--that is, while I feel fear I still know how to walk into the dangerous situation in a relaxed and attentive manner (my job requires me to walk dark, inner-city streets in Los Angeles, for instance). I just do it, and trust that I'll be ok even if I'm not ok. 2) The main thing I was consciously fearful of was going off of the TRT and supportive herbal protocols. I've now been off of it now for about 2 months I guess. So it is tough to see what the nature of the fear might be.

I'll just try asking myself the question "what am I afraid of about letting the sub execute?" The first thing that comes to mind is "well, I don't know what it is saying to me--how can I completely let down my guard if I don't have the conscious ability to determine it is 'safe'. In response to this (which I have had since I began using your subs), I say to myself, let's see how it works and if we like the results we'll keep them, if not we can let go of any changes it makes. This is a sort of double-blind we use when hypnotizing people. We presume the person will like the changes, but they don't have to keep the results after trying them out. This normally frees the subject to open up.  So it is a little funny, if it is indeed the case as you suggest, that I'm resisting at some level even with my efforts to bypass the subconscious rejection.

It just occurred to me: I do have a hesitation to allow post-hypnotic triggers to be embedded. Could that be a thing?

If you think of anything else that might help, let me know--I'm always trying new things and I'm willing to learn!

Cheers,
RonO

Forgot to add:
* I just had my first migraine in over a year this week
* I also just had a bad case of heartburn (on an empty stomach) just now-- something that has never happened during the day when I'm up and about

The overall feeling is that I'm just not doing well anymore, and getting worse.

I don't use hypnosis or hypnotic triggers or post hypnotic triggers in my scripts.  My scripts are a goal, or set of goals, and instructions on generally what to do to achieve those goals. 

Asking yourself what the problem is and getting that answer, you're not talking to a part of you that is subconscious.  The subconscius knows everything in the script, and without the interference it was obviously executing, so the interference has to be coming from some part of you on the border of the subconscious that either doesn't trust me or the script, or is otherwise convinced that it is better to prevent this program from succeeding.  And unless and until you get through that, it is going to continue causing problems for you.

We could play the whack a mole game, where I find the new set of coordinates for getting it to work every week or two, but I cannot do that.  It would quickly lead to me getting nothing else done as everyone was asking for that.  So you seem to know something about hypnosis, and that apparently puts you squarely in the camp of who are those who know just enough to make things difficult for everyone.  In other words, you know some, but not all, of what you need to know to get past the fear that your partial knowledge of what is what regarding all this gets you.  Knowing too little results in either complete acceptance or complete rejection.  Knowing enough means you can relax and go with the flow.  But knowing some only allows you (or parts of you) to reach conclusions that are based on partial understanding, which are going to be in error a significant part of the time, and then feared and rejected for execution.

Consider this.  If you could not control what happens, you would be doing it.  Since you can interfere, that means you are able to exercise control, and that means there's nothing to fear.  But that part of you apparently straddles the low conscious/high subconscious, and cannot see what is in the script.  Based on that and the conclusions you've reached about how hypnosis and subliminals work, that part of you fears letting the cooperative parts of you execute - even though we have clearly seen that you can execute, if you are fully cooperative. 

Based on this, I'd say your options will be one of the following:

1. Work through and resolve the roots of that resistance, probably using self hypnosis.
2. Start using different volumes trying to find what works.
3. Do a run of Overcoming Fear v4 and then try again.
4. Go back to what you were using before.

Hi All, (10/13/2022)

So, this is not so fun right now... but there is a mix of good and bad news.

Just finished another full cycle with he 5 days on and 1 day off. Been on the sub for 2.5 months.

Good news:

• Mood is pretty good
  
• Mental clarity is pretty good
  
• Motivation is ok (could be a lot better) 
  
• Distraction isn't too bad, but it's not great
  
• Able to perform sexually
  
• Weight is staying constant - it had dropped and I was certain I was losing muscle mass, now I'm staying pat
  
• Resting heartrate is great
  
• Blood pressure is in the sweet spot, 
  

Bad news:

• low sex drive - I don't even think about sex unless it is 'time' and I have to -- so not like me in the past, just glad I can perform
  
• Strength is terrible -- for a couple weeks I was unmotivated to work out, BUT I still did. Early on, I was tearing up the gym and getting back to my pre-covid strength. Now my strength has dropped at least 20%
  
• Endurance is down
  
• Pain in my shoulders in spite of the fact I'm doing less exercise with less weights.
  
• Exercise is becoming a drag because of the decreased strength, endurance and pain... I'm wondering if I should take a break from even trying because I'm seeing the opposite of progress. It's not a plateau--I've seen these before, this is worse. I'm suddenly struggling to lift weights that I was able to lift easily right after my bout with covid.
  

I've tried the things Shannon suggested, talking to my subconscious and trying to get it to execute and it doesn't seem to be responding. 

This is starting to feel like a see-saw. I can have the beneficial sexual effects and strength OR I can choose mental clarity. 

@Shannon: I'm getting frustrated cause of the lack of positive change (and the negative changes in strength), so far I'm still trying, but I'm starting to wonder if I should try adding back in some parts of my doctor's longevity protocol.

What do you think about me going back on:

1. Peptides that encourage your body to boost Growth Hormone
   
2. Peptides that help induce deep sleep
   
3. Testosterone injections - could do a low-level like 200mg rather than 500mg 2x/wk
   
4. HCG - could do half doses to see if it picks up the slack
   

I'm concerned now-- I'm watching my body change from cut and strong-looking gradually to 'old man belly' and weak-looking shoulders and legs. At my age will this experiment lose me ground I can't get back?

When I started the experiment I had high hopes and expectations. Now I'm wondering when the magic will happen. 

Maybe I just need a pep talk, or some tweak to my process? If I don't see any change in the next couple days, I'll start experimenting with changing the volume around since lowering it modified the effect and got me the mental clarity back, maybe alternating days low volume one night higher volume another night will coax more effects out.

Cheers,
RonO

If you want to keep doing the experiment, then probably the best thing to do is adjust the volume on a periodic basis.  There seems to be, on these long run subs, an issue of either acclimation, boredom or both.  In this case, we know you're probably also fighting the parts of yourself that are cooperative out of fear because you don't know what's in the script. 

Adjusting the volume is going to attune the impact to slightly different parts of your awareness, and there may be more or less cooperation as a result.  Since I can't be running my predictive models for you constantly to find the perfect option, the best options will be:

1. Use self hypnosis (or a hypnotist you trust) to get past that resistance, and get the cooperative parts to execute the AutoConfig script to tell you what settings to use, and
2. In the mean time, each week, ask your cooperative subconscious what the best volume is for achieving the program goals for that week.  Ask it to share that information in the best way for it to successfully get it to you consciously.
3. If you don't get an answer you understand, or until you do, vary the volume slightly each week.  Do so randomly, just before you make the change.  Give it a variance of + or - 1 to 3.  This should result in enough change each week that you see some sort of result, and hopefully we can get your resistance to be dealt with.

[rono]

Thanks, @Shannon, for taking the time to read and answer my questions and concerns.

The 'acclimation and/or boredom' does seem possible. At least it resonates a bit. The other subs I've run have had more obvious 'fun' outcomes as I went. Even the DMSI 3.3.2 gave me a lift every time I played it, even during one loop. I haven't felt that from this one since that first week or so.

I've been trying the self-hypnosis thing, but I'm not getting an answer as to what I'm 'afraid of' or 'resisting'.
In the meantime, I have had a strong urge to try different volumes, which I did.

You have had me at 6 clicks. So I tried bumping it to 8 one night then back down to 6 another night. Last night I did 7 clicks. I am wondering if I just bounce around based on the impressions or urges I'm getting I may be able to help out that part of me that is resisting execution. "I know you're trying to protect me, so how can I help you feel more comfortable with executing?" So the only thing I can think of as far as concrete actions is volume adjustment. I also may try two days off and see if that improves execution. Those are the things that come to my mind and maybe they ARE the auto-config at work?

So I'm planning on taking tonight off. I lost track this week (my life was super busy an crazy--daughter had a new baby, and basically been constantly busy and distracted, going to bed late, getting up earlier than we'd like, etc.) Unless, I feel inspired to do one more night at a different volume.

This past week or so when I started changing the volume, I started to feel a little better. However, then I lost a bunch of sleep and came down with some kind of cold that I'm just now getting over, so that could have affected me, too.

I'll keep you posted on what my 'auto config' seems to suggest and how it works.

If you have any other ideas, they would be much appreciated. I've invested a lot of money, time and effort into making this work, and I REALLY want to see the results be more powerful. Currently, my hormones are ok for someone my age, but I'm looking to get to the place where they are of a *younger me*. I have remembered my hormonal ideal as being mid-twenties when I couldn't get enough sex and thought about it all the time. Then also in my early and mid thirties.

It just occurred to me: One of the times in my past when I felt the best was during my mid-late 50s after I started the TRT. I wonder if that could be interfering with the 'goals' that the sub helps my subconscious set?

Cheers,
RonO

[rono]

Hi All, (11/11/2022)

I've been experimenting with volume (mostly increasing it) for several weeks I had it lowered to 6 clicks per Shannon's instrucitons.
Two weeks ago I started out boosting it one notch at a time or so. After a week of that then a rest, I started doing 9 clicks and have been feeling it a lot more.

Nothing much has changed re libido, I'm functional sexually with the wife. Had one 'morning glory' in the last two weeks. There are other indications (dm me if you want details--I don't want to get overly clinical here), that I really miss and indicate the HOY hasn't put me in an overall sweet spot hormonally. This private detail was a common feature to libido and sex for me throughout my life, only now that I've been HOY rather than TRT or previous to that herbal treatments, have I seen this one inexplicable change.

I am still hoping for more improvement but progress is slow at this stage and I wonder if it really will improve anymore substantially at this point, but I really like not giving myself shots 3 or 4 times a week as I did in TRT.

Planning to move the volume back down to 6 on my next cycle. Will post if anything interesting happens.

Have a great day and wish me luck!

RonO

[rono]

Hi All (11/17/2022),

So, this is interesting and if @Shannon gets a chance would appreciate his feedback.

• I had a funny feeling that I needed an extra day of break before starting the sub so I took a 2 day break (instead of just 1) AND I could feel it 'bloom' both days. Makes me wonder if I should try a 3rd day
  
• Was going to back off the volume on this cycle, but when I went to start the sub, my subconscious seemed to be nudging me to keep it at 9, trying to compromise, the first night I did it at 8, but then following days went back to 9.
  
• Have been feeling the effects more than in the previous month. Last month had a couple colds, viruses or such and am now over the last vestiges of the cough, so that could be part of it.
  
• The effects I'm feeling do not correspond to raised libido or sexual performance, both of which are at a low ebb as in just barely functional. 
  
• The effects I'm feeling are most like when I went on peptides prescribed by my doctor to boost growth hormone. That is: improved sleep and some improvement on energy, muscles feel fuller and respond better to exercise than in the previous 2 months, without eating less or changing my calorie intake (or outflow) I am dropping some weight again, which had begun to creep up. Now it has trended down over the last 2 cycles, especially this current cycle I'm wrapping up tomorrow.
  
• I have found that the improved energy level, fades quickly--especially some days--but this could be that I'm still dealing with some long covid symptoms. I'm going to my functional medicine doctor at the end of the month to discuss these.
  

Overall, I'm more encouraged that I was last week. Maybe it's all coming together now? Hope it is!

Have a blessed Thanksgiving if I don't get around to posting before.

Cheers!
RonO

[rono]

Hi All, 

Looks like @Shannon doesn't comment on my posts anymore. Perhaps he is too busy doing new development, etc.

Still, for the record here is where I'm at:

• Libido is unchanged, wishing it would go up, I'm pursuing this now with my functional medicine doc, she has ordered some tests to see if she can determine the underlying cause. Might be interesting.
  
• I've changed the run to 4 loops/night, 5 days (usually, I have messed up on this and lost track a couple times), 2 days off (I found that increasing from 1 day to 2 days, the sub activated more. 
  

Has anyone had better results on this than me? It is only just below adequate for me, after trying various patterns since late July. If it was 20% better at what it is doing for me, I'd be completely sold. I am going to be going in for some hormone tests soon. I put this off to give the sub more time to fully blossom. 4 full months of using the sub should be enough to get a good reading. The tests will be a good objective reading to see just where it puts me on the T and other hormones.

While I'm here, I'm looking for more info on the SARM, anyone tried it?

Also, the black friday/cyber monday sale excluded the more recent releases! The 45% discount would have given me an excuse to just throw down the money and give the SARM a whirl. I'll probably try it after the first of the year anyway, if I can find someone to tell me it worked for them.

Quick edit to ask a question I hope someone answers: @Shannon:
Is HOY compatible with SARM? I re-read the extensive sales copy, which seems to have been greatly expanded since last time I read it. It sounds like the hormones that SARM boosts are the ones that HOY is not boosting enough for me. Is there a way I could combine them to get both the general hormonal effects as well as enhanced libido effects?

Happy belated Thanksgiving!

Cheers!
RonO

[rono]

Hi All, 

Disclaimers: 
Remember, I'm a 66 year old that has been on TRT for over 10 years prior to this test. My results won't reflect yours unless you're perhaps in my category. At any rate, as the saying goes YMMV...

@Shannon: This post contains my not-so-glowing conclusions about the HOY sub. However, I want to thank him for the many great subs he has done that I have used and found very impactful. Out of the 7 I have used, only 2 have not given me results that are adequate. Pretty good odds for a field that is basically hidden in Shannon's head... lol.

All told, I've been using the sub for 4 months, 1 week and 4 days at this point (134 days). By my estimates I followed the exact instructions from Shannon for 3/4 of that time, with only minor adjustments in volume and number of rest days. 

I am soon terminating the experiment of substituting HOY for TRT that I began late in July. 

Just received my most recent testosterone panel results, they are as follows:

• Total Testosterone: 499 -- in range, but in the bottom third of norms for my age for men
  
• Free Testosterone: 28.9 -- below low range, this is the T that makes you feel something
  
• Bioavailable Testosterone: 63.2 -- this like 'Free' is also important, it is the active version of T
  
• Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: 83 -- this is a culprit preventing me from feeling the effects of the Free and Bioavailable T. It appears that the HOY program does not adequately address this part of the equation. Note that there are no medications for this available, there are two herbs that I used in the past to modulate it (alternating between them), but I have not been using them during the HOY until recently, I began using one of them at my doctor's insistence. I figured it was ok, because this is not affect hormone production. 
  
• FSH and LH -- 3.7 and 4.5 respectively: this puts me in the low end range for these hormones for men my age. For younger folk they are much higher. So it did not return my 'youthful' hormone levels.
  

Cortisol: 18.9 -- this has only increased gradually over the time of the trial

My conclusion at this point:

• HOY does not adequately boost T in me and/or men of my age and condition of low T caused by eating too much Soy back in the 90s.
  
• It does nothing to address the Total T vs. Free and Bioavailable T, as my SHBG has only increased through the experimental period.
  
• FSH and LH which I feel need to be boosted to feel younger, more vital and libidinous were slightly increased, but the target is in the upper range, not in the lower range where I still get symptoms. 
  
• Cortisol is at an all-time high for me, which is hard to explain since the test was done late morning (around 11am) after arising at 6:30am.
  

It may be just me. I would LOVE to know if anyone else is having success with this and what their age and the reason they are using the sub are.

Anyway. I'm probably going to finish this cycle and buy the SARM sometime around Christmas. I will check after using it for the appropriate amount of time if I see better increases in the above-mentioned hormones. 

Will I go back on TRT? I'll leave that recommendation up to my doctors. If they think it is the only solution, then I will probably have to, in order to keep the wifey happy, if you catch my drift. Because, the equipment downstairs has been gradually performing less and less well over the last month or two. 

I LOVE Shannon's subs. I have greatly enjoyed several of them over the years, PSE, X124, Aura of Love, SDM, even DMSI 3.3.2 worked gangbusters. This one didn't work for me for whatever reason. Shannon has suggested I was resisting subconsciously, that I have a fear problem, etc. perhaps it just isn't the one I need for what I'm trying to do. My suspicion is that it is not powerful enough to push my hormones into the zone I need them in to feel good. Perhaps its target is not top of range, rather to just boost a bit. Only Shannon knows and I suspect he's not telling because of the IP involved. 

I'll post again, when I have completed my final week. I don't expect much change but I sincerely HOPE for some benefit after all this effort.

Thanks for listening if you got this far.........

Cheers,
RonO