Am6 did not work

[K-Train]

You say you're not an expert but you're very adamant that you know more than an individual who has studied this particular subject area for at least a decade??? Your opinions on the AP code (which I don't entirely disagree with BTW) is one thing but considering Shannon has researched subliminals and produced subliminals that work (by your own admission) then I'd say on this particular issue I'm going to have lean with his expertise. I do agree that one cannot prevent EVERYTHING from being absorbed by the subconscious, even Shannon has admitted that, but using name embeds could reduce the effectiveness enough to where it would make the individual more likely to just buy their own copy from Indigo Mind Labs.

As far as the threat of a future competitor, that's actually a valid possibility and was actually demonstrated this year by PS4 vs Xbox One where Xbox One (Microsoft) considered not allowing the purchase of used games whereas PS4 (Sony) did. Microsoft changed their tune of course but it did hurt them as PS4 eclipsed them in sales. So yes, you are IMO correct that Shannon's AP code could cost him customers if another company rises up. Which is why I propose he find an alternative solution to it other than simply removing it (although I wouldn't complain if he did remove it).

Here's the thing though Justin, you're saying "just let live". Ok. Well obviously I'm not going to complain much if the AP code gets taken out because I'll be able to share subliminals much more easily with other people and can split the price of a $500 sub with a buddy so if the price of subliminals stays the same I (the customer) am going to win out. My issue is that Shannon may then opt to simply jack the prices up to compensate for the losses or implement another strategy to cover up the losses. IF he's going to increase the price I'd rather it be done in a way such as the one I described (or something similar) that provides benefit to both customer and owner while simultaneously helping to protect his property.

EDIT: Did some editing on the first paragraph for spelling errors.

[TheRealJustin]

You say you're not an expert but you're very adamant that you know more than an individual who has studied this particular subject area for at least a decade??? Your opinions on the AP code (which I don't entirely disagree with BTW) is one thing but considering Shannon has researched subliminals and produced subliminals that work (by your own admission) then I'd say on this particular issue I'm going to have lean with his expertise. I do agree that one cannot prevent EVERYTHING from being absorbed by the subconscious, even Shannon has admitted that, but using name embeds could reduce the effectiveness enough to wear it would make the individual more likely to just buy their own copy from Indigo Mind Labs.

As far as the threat of a future competitor, that's actually a valid possibility and was actually demonstrated this year by PS4 vs Xbox One where Xbox One (Microsoft) considered not allowing the purchase of used games whereas PS4 (Sony) did. Microsoft changed their tune of course but it did hurt them as PS4 eclipsed them in sales. So yes, you are IMO correct that Shannon's AP code could cost him customers if another company rises up. Which is why I propose he find an alternative solution to it other than simply removing it (although I wouldn't complain if he did remove it).

Here's the thing though Justin, you're saying "just let live". Ok. Well obviously I'm not going to complain much if the AP code gets taken out because I'll be able to share subliminals much more easily with other people and can split the price of a $500 sub with a buddy so if the price of subliminals stays the same I (the customer) am going to win out. My issue is that Shannon may then opt to simply jack the prices up to compensate for the losses or implement another strategy to cover up the losses. IF he's going to increase the price I'd rather it be done in a way such as the one I described (or something similar) that provides benefit to both customer and owner while simultaneously helping to protect his property.

EDIT: Did some editing on the first paragraph for spelling errors.

Name embeds would make a sub not as good, or maybe take longer to work, and probably work better and faster for people who have the same name, but what I'm saying is name embeds wouldn't stop someone with a different name from benefiting.

See, my whole concern stems from THIS because just because Shannon says the APcode is scripted to only affect us on his subs, it doesn't mean that we won't be affected by things that aren't only his subs.

Just like if a sub says "I nick am now insanely confident" I can still benefit from it even though my name is Justin.

Now, this means that even though AP code says to only apply for Shannon's stuff, it does NOT mean my subconscious isn't going to eventually start applying it to other things because the message without the specificity of Shannon's subs only is still there and still being absorbed.

Knowing how loose his thoughts are on piracy, I realize that in his eyes, I am committing piracy every time I go to youtube . com, or turn on my ipod.

Okay, and every sub I listen to is programming HIS idea of piracy into MY fu*king head, and I PERSONALLY have a COMPLETELY different view on it, and my point is that, I, as a PAYING customer with REAL money should not have to have that sh*t programmed into my head just because OTHER PEOPLE out there are stealing sh*t.

I don't care about other people stealing sh*t, that's not why I buy these fu*king subs. I buy these subs FOR ME to benefit from, and I shouldn't have to have that sh*t programmed into my head because other people want to get Shannon's subs for free.

Even though his AP code is specified for his stuff (which I still think is insanely wrong but doesn't affect me) I'm eventually still going to be affected by the APcode in some way with things that are completely unrelated to Shannon's subs, just like if I listened to a sub say "I nick am extremely confident" Eventually, I would become extremely confident even though my name isn't Nick.

Okay, it's not right for me to have to have the apcode playing in my head. I bought my subs I did not steal them so why should I have to have my beliefs changed that I do not want changed?

[Darkness]

Can ANYONE tell me why they want the APcode programmed into their heads?

CAN ANY OF YOU TELL ME WHY?

Can any one of you people tell me, and swear on your life, that if there were 2 versions of every sub, one with APcode and one without APcode, you would choose the one with APCode?

Can ANY of you tell me that in all honesty?

If you can't tell, it's a rhetorical question, I already know that nobody would choose the sub with the APcode.

Now, ask yourself why you're defending it so much.

Maybe cult like idol worshiping?

Could be, but we as humans don't admit stuff like that to ourselves.

You're being a baby about it.

Weren't you the one that was just talking about name calling? Lmao!

Maybe I'm just not a bitch or a suck up or a pushover.

Again, ad hominem , you ignore the logic . In favor of disrespect.
And thus proving my point, with your desperation and your insults.
Lose the names and start logically stating why the AP code is unnecessary.
It's a store, EVERY piece merchandise needs security tags. Simple.
Your turn.

[TheRealJustin]

Can ANYONE tell me why they want the APcode programmed into their heads?

CAN ANY OF YOU TELL ME WHY?

Can any one of you people tell me, and swear on your life, that if there were 2 versions of every sub, one with APcode and one without APcode, you would choose the one with APCode?

Can ANY of you tell me that in all honesty?

If you can't tell, it's a rhetorical question, I already know that nobody would choose the sub with the APcode.

Now, ask yourself why you're defending it so much.

Maybe cult like idol worshiping?

Could be, but we as humans don't admit stuff like that to ourselves.

You're being a baby about it.

Weren't you the one that was just talking about name calling? Lmao!

Maybe I'm just not a bitch or a suck up or a pushover.

Again, ad hominem , you ignore the logic . In favor of disrespect.
And thus proving my point, with your desperation and your insults.
Lose the names and start logically stating why the AP code is unnecessary.
It's a store, the merchandise needs security tags. Simple.
Your turn.

You're ignorant and looking for an argument.

Online business's obviously don't have security like in a retail store.

If Shannon wants that type of security, he's more than welcome to put his programs on CD's and sell them in retail stores.

[Darkness]

Can ANYONE tell me why they want the APcode programmed into their heads?

CAN ANY OF YOU TELL ME WHY?

Can any one of you people tell me, and swear on your life, that if there were 2 versions of every sub, one with APcode and one without APcode, you would choose the one with APCode?

Can ANY of you tell me that in all honesty?

If you can't tell, it's a rhetorical question, I already know that nobody would choose the sub with the APcode.

Now, ask yourself why you're defending it so much.

Maybe cult like idol worshiping?

Could be, but we as humans don't admit stuff like that to ourselves.

You're being a baby about it.

Weren't you the one that was just talking about name calling? Lmao!

Maybe I'm just not a bitch or a suck up or a pushover.

Again, ad hominem , you ignore the logic . In favor of disrespect.
And thus proving my point, with your desperation and your insults.
Lose the names and start logically stating why the AP code is unnecessary.
It's a store, the merchandise needs security tags. Simple.
Your turn.

You're ignorant and looking for an argument.

Online business's obviously don't have security like in a retail store.

If Shannon wants that type of security, he's more then welcome to put his programs on CD's and sell them in retail stores.

That type of thinking , bc everyone does it I should too, doesn't foster intellectual independence . And since online business don't ,they're at greater risk for loss. Hence the need for protection from piracy. Thus the AP Code.

[K-Train]

Name embeds would make a sub not as good, or maybe take longer to work, and probably work better and faster for people who have the same name, but what I'm saying is name embeds wouldn't stop someone with a different name from benefiting.

Agreed. So just for clarification, IF (this is a big if), Shannon some how made it so that only you the customer(s) (with that particular name) would benefit and those who "stole" the programs with different names got absolutely ZERO benefits from a sub with a different name than theirs you would not be opposed to the name embed proposition?

Okay, and every sub I listen to is programming HIS idea of piracy into MY fu*king head, and I PERSONALLY have a COMPLETELY different view on it, and my point is that, I, as a PAYING customer with REAL money should not have to have that sh*t programmed into my head just because OTHER PEOPLE out there are stealing sh*t.

I don't care about other people stealing sh*t, that's not why I buy these fu*king subs. I buy these subs FOR ME to benefit from, and I shouldn't have to have that sh*t programmed into my head because other people want to get Shannon's subs for free.

Even though his AP code is specified for his stuff (which I still think is insanely wrong but doesn't affect me) I'm eventually still going to be affected by the APcode in some way with things that are completely unrelated to Shannon's subs, just like if I listened to a sub say "I nick am extremely confident" Eventually, I would become extremely confident even though my name isn't Nick.

Okay, it's not right for me to have to have the apcode playing in my head. I bought my subs I did not steal them so why should I have to have my beliefs changed that I do not want changed?

Often times the majority are punished (fairly or unfairly) due to the decisions of a minority of people. Many restrictions are put on things just because a minority of individuals will/do take advantage of certain situations. It's a sad part of life which I agree is messed up. What I'll say is this, if you don't want any of the APcode playing in your head and don't want to run the risk of the APcode still messing with your brain I advise you not spend anymore money on Shannon's products. The same goes for everyone else. Your opinions are what they are and I'm not going to try to change them but I'm sure you'd agree that continuing to fund business practices you don't agree with is a waste of time and money wouldn't you say?

[TheRealJustin]

[quote='TheRealJustin' pid='93856' dateline='1450549831']

Name embeds would make a sub not as good, or maybe take longer to work, and probably work better and faster for people who have the same name, but what I'm saying is name embeds wouldn't stop someone with a different name from benefiting.

Agreed. So just for clarification, IF (this is a big if), Shannon some how made it so that only you the customer(s) (with that particular name) would benefit and those who "stole" the programs with different names got absolutely ZERO benefits from a sub with a different name than theirs you would not be opposed to the name embed proposition?

Okay, and every sub I listen to is programming HIS idea of piracy into MY fu*king head, and I PERSONALLY have a COMPLETELY different view on it, and my point is that, I, as a PAYING customer with REAL money should not have to have that sh*t programmed into my head just because OTHER PEOPLE out there are stealing sh*t.

I don't care about other people stealing sh*t, that's not why I buy these fu*king subs. I buy these subs FOR ME to benefit from, and I shouldn't have to have that sh*t programmed into my head because other people want to get Shannon's subs for free.

Even though his AP code is specified for his stuff (which I still think is insanely wrong but doesn't affect me) I'm eventually still going to be affected by the APcode in some way with things that are completely unrelated to Shannon's subs, just like if I listened to a sub say "I nick am extremely confident" Eventually, I would become extremely confident even though my name isn't Nick.

Okay, it's not right for me to have to have the apcode playing in my head. I bought my subs I did not steal them so why should I have to have my beliefs changed that I do not want changed?

Often times the majority are punished (fairly or unfairly) due to the decisions of a minority of people. Many restrictions are put on things just because a minority of individuals will/do take advantage of certain situations. It's a sad part of life which I agree is messed up. What I'll say is this, if you don't want any of the APcode playing in your head and don't want to run the risk of the APcode still messing with your brain I advise you not spend anymore money on Shannon's products. The same goes for everyone else. Your opinions are what they are and I'm not going to try to change them but I'm sure you'd agree that continuing to fund business practices you don't agree with is a waste of time and money wouldn't you say?
[/quote]

I agree, but I already spent the money and bought the subs. I would much rather keep using and buying subs from this company than not, but I may have to look around for the next best thing.

You are right though, my opinion on apcode will not change, and nobody should stand for it.

[K-Train]

That type of thinking , bc everyone does it I should too, doesn't foster intellectual independence . And since online business don't ,they're at greater risk for loss. Hence the need for protection from piracy. Thus the AP Code.

Yeah this is the problem right here. Online businesses that sell digital media are in a tough spot since they don't have actual physical property. They pretty much leave it up to the business owners to fight for themselves. When you leave people to fight for themselves they're going to utilize different ways of protecting themselves. I feel in the future the government will have to agree upon a possible list of legal actions that online owners can take to protect their media.

[TheRealJustin]

That type of thinking , bc everyone does it I should too, doesn't foster intellectual independence . And since online business don't ,they're at greater risk for loss. Hence the need for protection from piracy. Thus the AP Code.

Yeah this is the problem right here. Online businesses that sell digital media are in a tough spot since they don't have actual physical property. They pretty much leave it up to the business owners to fight for themselves. When you leave people to fight for themselves they're going to utilize different ways of protecting themselves. I feel in the future the government will have to agree upon a possible list of legal actions that online owners can take to protect their media.

That's the things about online businesses, there's pro's and con's. If you can't handle the cons, then you shouldn't do business online.

Doing unethical, immoral business practices, and quite frankly more than likely HIGHLY illegal business practices is not the solution.

If I could get a refund for every sub I ever bought here I would drop it right now, delete what I have, and try out a new vendor but I can't so I'm upset.

[K-Train]

I agree, but I already spent the money and bought the subs. I would much rather keep using and buying subs from this company than not, but I may have to look around for the next best thing.

You are right though, my opinion on apcode will not change, and nobody should stand for it.

Well regardless of whether you stay here or go elsewhere I tip my hat to ya for sticking up for what you believe in and wish you luck amigo.

[TheRealJustin]

I agree, but I already spent the money and bought the subs. I would much rather keep using and buying subs from this company than not, but I may have to look around for the next best thing.

You are right though, my opinion on apcode will not change, and nobody should stand for it.

Well regardless of whether you stay here or go elsewhere I tip my hat to ya for sticking up for what you believe in and wish you luck amigo.

Let's be real, there's no where else to go. These subs are hands down the best no doubt.

[Survivor]

Minititan's posts are valuable ,Shannon.They are on the previos page.They provide some good reasons why removing the AP code would be beneficial for you in the long term.

And Justin is right.This whole thing 'ap code-I -won't- tell-exactly-what-it-is ' is shady and fear-inducing.Please find a way to change that, Shannon.

And I noticed something very interesting . On page 4, post #77 , Shannon says 'My AP code concerns my subs only.I'm not trying to change your tune on any product but my own.' On the previous pages you say something like ' Justin, read the faq and don't waste my time', this one is not quoted.Well, let's take a quote from the FAQ : ' The anti-piracy measures in the subliminals that include them are designed to cause people who would pirate our subliminals, and commit piracy IN GENERAL, to stop doing so.' Oops. What is this? IN GENERAL. Why are you lying Shannon, deliberately or not to Justin? So that he can stop writing his concerns? And le's face it, even if Shannon will tell us :' ok customers, I will remove ap code for your convenience' he may still not remove it, after all, who is gonna find out about it? Nobody will.
Yeah, Shannon is all about honesty, yet we should keep in mind that Shannon is a human and as we know, humans 1) are egoistical creatures 2) CHANGE . After all, we 're talking subliminals here.NOBODY can find out what goes into the scripts of the subliminal programs, NOBODY - Shannon has made sure nobody can find a way to do it.

Justin has very good points.Something has to change about this code.Maybe its presence should not be there.

Shannon, just because the fewer forum members years ago were Ok with the AP code doesn't mean we're agreeing with this now.

[apollolux]

First sale, license vs. copy vs. ownership, DRM, artificial scarcity on digital products, anti-circumvention, etc etc etc.

The same stuff is being said over and over. Here are the facts:

• Shannon is currently employing a "security through obscurity" DRM model on his digital audio products. Because nobody currently knows the exact procedure Shannon performs to produce his work that in and of itself is a deterrent to reverse engineer it. That being said, this mainly means two things seemingly paradoxical: even if someone knew the exact script Shannon wrote, producing the exact same output with the same or better efficacy is nearly impossible without following Shannon's exact procedure step by step; and, as always, if someone is truly determined to "crack the code" and is reasonably skilled and/or knowledgeable in effective methods of reverse engineering, it can and eventually will be done, but the deterrence simply affects how long and how much effort it takes to do so. Also, circumvention of "security methods" on digital audio is only illegal if the intent is to distribute the circumvented software illegally, the DMCA actually allows exemptions for circumvention for educational purposes and certain "freedom of choice" purposes like jailbreaking or unlocking a phone to change carriers or to install a custom OS.
  
• Circumvention of "security" in digital audio can be done mainly one of two ways, either at the binary level or at the audio level. The first is akin to modifying data directly in something like a hex editor (accounts for run-of-the-mill DRM like locking a song to a specific iTunes account) and the second is basically using an audio editor to process and modify the sound produced. Since Shannon's security method is script-based, removing it requires the latter, editing the sound wave itself; even with knowledge of the exact script Shannon uses for AP it will be statistically impossible for someone to perform the audio transformations necessary to remove it from IML subs and leave the rest of the script intact unless they also either have knowledge of Shannon's procedure, are willing to perform a massive amount of trial-and-error, and/or have more audio DSP knowledge than Shannon and can and is willing to "beat him at his own game," so to speak. So far only the middle kind of cracker (the brute force, trial-and-error kind) exists for someone wanting to circumvent IML subs.
  
• History has shown time and time again that the harder it is for someone to experience and enjoy a product, the more likely a competitor with a similar but easier to use product will succeed and force the original producer to either adapt or die. iTunes, the current #1 online music store, originally had DRM on songs but thanks to Amazon offering the same music at the same price and quality but DRM-free and taking their business they now no longer do so. Adobe's products are repeatedly pirated because they charge prohibitively high prices, and products like Sketch (graphics) and Coda (web development) succeed and eat Adobe's lunch because they're less expensive, better quality, and Adobe's response is instead to move to a more prohibitive pricing model (from the one-time-cost Creative Suite to the monthly-subscription Creative Cloud) they ignorantly believe is the better solution to their problem and will price them out of market leadership.
  
• There was a fourth thing, but by the time I got to this point I forgot what it was going to be. Probably something about customer satisfaction or something.
  

tl;dr:

@Shannon - Technologically, there is nothing to worry about releasing the script you use for AP. It's not possible at this point in time for someone to circumvent it digitally because no one yet possesses the necessary knowledge and/or skill set to do so, nor is it likely someone will in the near future. That being said, it is difficult to prevent, say, a "pirate" or group of "pirates" from buying or organizing a "group buy," purchasing from the shop using those funds, and then later distributing those subs either within the group involved or to the public in general via torrents or something. It's not competitors currently stealing your work and passing it off as their own you should worry about nor is it the minority of people who would torrent or distribute on torrent your work no matter what, it's losing paying customers who don't believe or have faith that you won't use your knowledge of psychological scripting for nefarious purposes. A little will go a long way towards reassurances, and even if a competitor copies your AP script into their motivational offerings after you release it they still won't have products nearly as effective as IML products. Also, as a businessman you should probably be more concerned with the potential loss of business from existing customers who may have wanted to buy more subs in the future rather than potential future customers who haven't even given a dime to you yet; customer retention is almost always more important than customer acquisition and you should know better than most here the importance of repeat business.

@Others - There is a lot of fear-mongering going on in this thread, a bit from Shannon in response to what's being posted but mostly from everyone else. I hope the information I've provided in this post is useful enough and accurate enough to educate on some points that may have been lost in the shuffle. Concern about the messaging we absorb from these subs can be legit, but will get lost in the mix if we resort to unnecessary ad hominem attacks and talking about things unrelated to the topics at hand.

(small edits for grammar and clarification)

[Shannon]

Look Shannon, I get it, you have a strong opinion about your programmes.

When it comes to anti-piracy I am not entirely sure you would call it opionion. My efforts follow copyright law as far as I know.

When i said the end user has a right to do as he pleases, your licencing examples of OS's are a weak example, nothing controls how an end user HAS to use their OS, nothing controls how an end user HAS to use their video games, even if these are licensed products, there is nothing in any stipulation that stops a user from sharing these.

On the contrary, you saying that only displays your level of ignorance on the matter.

The law disagrees with you. So do the facts. Have you ever heard of the Windows registry? Do you know why that nightmare exists? It's not because Microsoft one day thought it would be fun to do. It's primarily there so you cannot simply copy a file or folder from one computer to another and make a copy of a program.

And, if you use the program or video game, you have to accept the End User License Agreement, which calls on copyright law to prevent you from committing piracy.

I completely understand that you wouldn't want your products shared across the internet for free, but the level of control you are imposing over a product you've sold is a little concerning, especially since your products are designed to improve peoples lives.

AP code stops people from committing piracy. That's it. Since piracy is against the law to begin with, where is the cause for concern? It seems preposterous for you to be arguing that it is concerning that my efforts don't allow you to ignore copyright law.

I think its ridiculous that you expect me to pay $500 for a product, and if i get results and say tell my brother or my friend to give it a try you expect them to also hunt out your website spend $500 when all they have is my word, haha its ridiculous thats no way to treat a customer and not a very good reputation to have in any market, basically If i was to let my brother use a product i purchased from you, we would both be in violation of your AP code and whatever would or wouldn't happen.

That it is ridiculous to follow the law, that it is ridiculous to expect someone to pay for what they use, enjoy and benefit from, that it is ridiculous that you think I should work for your benefit without getting fair and expected lawful compensation, is what's ridiculous. That's no way to treat a content producer, and you're only making yourself look crazy to anyone who has any common sense.

If you want your brother to "see for himself" without paying for it first, you can use it for yourself while he is around. But you paid for it and he didn't. He does not have the right, therefore, to freely use and benefit from it. You're paying not just for all the expertise, work, research, development, time and so forth that went into making the product, you're paying also for the right to use it when you like, on what device you like.

If I get a "bad rep" in the market for not allowing people to pirate my stuff, then guess who won't be using my stuff? The very same people who wouldn't be paying for it in the first place! And somehow I don't think that's going to lose me much sleep at night.

If i let my brother use my mac apple would not dream of ever stopping my mac from working properly until my brother paid the full retail price, when I'm playing a video game and my friend wants a shot my game doesnt decide it can no longer function in an appropriate manner because someone who doesnt own it has played.

The difference lies here. A Mac is a physical computer. You can't just click and copy a computer. So, it isn't piracy to allow someone else to use the computer you paid for, now is it? There's a big difference. There is also a difference in a game, which only allows one install per license. That copy exists on one computer, one time, and it exists on the original install media. You can not just give it away andhave everyone use it freely. But if you let someone else use that one install on your one computer, then no copyright infringement happens because that one install, on that one computer, has been paid for. No imbalance of value.

if either of those examples did what your ap code did, then both apple nor the game developer/publisher/licencee would eventually go about of business.

The first example doesn't need to, or trust me, they'd try. And the second example, as per my explanation, does EXACTLY what my AP code does.

Its a poor way to treat customers, I get it, don't spread my products around because I'll lose money, but the amount of control you try to execute over your customers is frankly disgusting practice, if this was any other niche you'd be screwed.

What you fail. time and again, to comprehend here is that I am not burdening my CUSTOMERS at all with this. It does not affect my CUSTOMERS. Customers pay for the program, and keep the balance of value exchange. Piracy, on the other hand, does not. And the AP code only activates when you commit piracy.

There is, if you look at antipiracy measures in practice, a lot to be said for how lenient my methods are compared to a lot of others out there. Your claims of "disgusting" are laughable.

If it was any other niche I'd be screwed? I am already screwed. People like you make me spend hours explaining basic common sense and copyright law when I could be working, and because of this I am falling ever further behind on my work. And all of this is basic common sense. Go read copyright law sometime. See just how wrong you are.

If you want to sell me a product and control everything i do with that product then i shouldn't be paying $500 i should be paying a subscription to the sub that i am running.

If I wanted to control everything you do with my intellectual property, I would have spent a lot more time and money on the AP code. But I don't. Just want my due recompense for what people benefit from concerning my work.

As for the subscription option, we are considering that, but it's going to be a bit before we might be able to move forward with it. But even if you had it on a subscription plan, copyright law would not change for you. Sorry.

I'm only so shocked, because when i first discovered indigo mind labs about 5 years ago, a friend of mine put DAOS and AM on my ipod, and said here try these out they are good and the guy who sells them is a pretty awesome guy, I tried them, i saw some fantastic results and in the 4 years since I've invested over $2000 on your products across my two accounts

Yes, I am familiar with the concept that piracy acts as advertising. That's part of why I allow people to benefit from the programs even if they are pirated. I don't use code that causes people to advertise for me, but if you are going to commit piracy anyway, I might as well benefit to the maximum extent possible. Otherwise I;d have simply made the AP code shut down results altogether for pirated copies.

, and back then I thought you were genuinely a good person and I was especially impressed with the cancer healing aid sub you give away for free, back then I knew a person who was going through chemotherapy so it was a great supportive sub for her and the fact it was free showed a humanitarian side to the company, 2 years later I send her MLS which i had used too, she saw results and has since purchased numerous products from you. Unforunately now I dont see a humanitarian company, it is so about money with you that the act of sharing a subliminal (which the end user now owns after purchase) invalidates the subliminal, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that was introduced to your work by a method that would activate the AP code.

Translation: I can't break copyright law? Screw you!

Humanitarian or not, the bottom line for any company comes down to cash flow. Does the company have the cash to continue operating? If not, that company dies. Cash for a company is like oxygen for a person. It is a quick death when the company is starved of it sufficiently.

That has nothing to do with humanitarian or not. That's common sense and basic fact. So to keep this company alive, and keep it benefitting those it is benefitting, I have to make sure that the leeches and pirates return enough value that the coompany does not die in the process. Benign advertising type piracy is still going to lose the copmpany money because not everyone who wanders off with a product is going to pay for it, regardless of how awesome it is.

So, my code allows for that sharing and experiencing what value is to be had before the payment is made, but in the case of no payment, something is done to return fair value to the company and help us stay afloat. We are not sitting here in piles of money. We don't have billions or even millions in cash reserves, like some of the more obvious companies out there. Our growth is expensive for us. So at the end of the day, how do we get the pirates to pay for their programs? How do I keep this company alive and make it possible that it will not need to worry about things like this concerning it's survival? Because if we die from too many leechers, NOBODY benefits.

So in interest, what happens if I go 50/50 with someone to purchase a subliminal? lets say $500 dollars is a bit of a stretch for a sub but my friend wants to run it too and we buy it 50/50, what happens?

Let's say you go into a game store and spend 50% on the game you want, and your friend spends 50%? You now share ownership of a physical disc. Not the actual game data on it, because that's only licensed to you. So you can use that game on one game console or computer and that's that. And if you want to share, then you have to wait for the other person to finish using it. But since there is only one copy in use, and only one license paid for, nobody cares.

Now let's say you get tired of waiting your turn, and you break the game disk in half and take your half home to install it on your computer or console. You have your half, and you paid for your half. But it won't work, because only half the required data is there.

Maybe you decide to rip the disc and install it on two consoles at once. That's two coipies, when only one license has been paid for. That's piracy. And that of course is why they have keys that are server side to prevent people from doing that, because they know that people don't have the common sense or decency to "get it" that you have to pay for what you want to use and benefit from.

If you group buy something, then multiple people intend to benefit from ONE license to use it. That's piracy. That triggers AP code.

Do we both equally get half the value or does neither of us get any value?

One of you is the licensed owner and one of you is not. One license, one copy. Whoever isn't the owner of that license isn't free to use it without the other person using it for themselves at the same time.

What if my grandparents want to quit smoking and I buy them one of your subs, to play in their living room, does it only work effectively for one of them, one person paid and distributed it to two people. Does the act of distributing the sub to my 2 grandparents mess up my use of the current sub I am running.

If you buy a stop smoking sub, and then you give it to one of your grandparents, without retaining any copies, and then the owner benefits from it while someone else happens to also be exposed and benefits from it, there is no problem.

I know this board is policed by Indigo Mind Labs so you may not see it so much here, but have a look around on other forums etc, you might be surprised by the amount of the negative publicity this company is getting because of this anti-piracy thing.

So basically, we are pissing off the people who would steal from us. Does this bother me? In the end, such people are not providing me with what I am asking for in return for my products and work, so they are not my customers. I listen to my CUSTOMERS, not thieves. And what I am asking for is simply that you follow existing copyright law. How ridiculous of me! The nerve I have.

I have to agree with the outside opinion, as much as I love your products, you already control how we run them through instructions, now you are controlling the way we own a product we bought, and yes we buy them, so from a legal standpoint, any media that is purchased and then downloaded unless specifically of a rental nature is owned by the end user,

The program remains my intellectual property. That is why copyright law applies. I had been wanting to avoid getting into the full length EULA crap, but you don't seem to like that. So you want us to impose more restrictions, with a full length licensing contract, is hat's what you're saying? Because that's what you're pushing for with all this.

once it reaches our hands its our copy of your program, and I personally see nothing wrong with giving my copy to someone else to try, which I've done and I know 4 people in my job that have purchased from you because of a file I gave them, however since you don't want us too provide feedback and free advertisement in this manner, I will no longer share my older subliminals with people I know nor will I recommend people I know too check you out as I don't agree with your ethics and your overpowering need to control, perhaps consider changing the title of BAMM to something more appropriate!

You have a copyrighted program. You don't have unlimited freedom to copy and distribute it.

If that means you send people to our forum to try the FREE programs that we specifically offer so you can try it without paying for it, then maybe that would be a good idea. But sharing copies of programs we expect to be paid for is not good. There is no guarantee that everyone you give it to is going to pay for it. And over time, that costs us a lot of money.

If we didn't have to deal with the money we lose to piracy, how much better would our programs be already? How much more time would we have for R&D? How much more money would we have for R&D?

If my ethics were not in play, I might have used draconian DRM that only allows you to play it on one device and only for the number of times I choose per licensing payment. It was certainly recommended to me more than once.

If my ethics were not in play, I would have simply denied all pirates any benefits at all from the use of unpaid programming.

We don't have an overpowering need to control. We want our business to stay alive and benefit as many people as possible. We cannot stay alive if we don't make enough money for our value offered. And if we starve for cash flow and die, who benefits then?

Are you so blind that you think it's better to lose all of this than to save up for something you want, instead of group buying or pirating it? The digital age has produced so much instant gratification that nobody seems to have any memory or understanding of what it means to save up for what you want if you can't afford it right now.

Well, if I go to a car dealership and complain because they won't let me steal a car because I only have say $2,000 and they want me to pay $25,000, who cares? They'll tell me to save up for it or pay in installments.

We cannot currently do the installments thing, so you have the option of saving for something you cannot afford right now.

And if you think my prices are too high, you're welcome to use someone else's offering instead. But my prices are where they are because that is the fair value I have concluded recovers my time and effort and investment and expertise. That's what keeps us afloat.

If you don't like it, you can vote with your wallet and buy from someone else. But stealing is not an option. You pay for it, and then you get it. That's the deal. That's why we have free versions of full programs for you to try first.