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Staticky sound on quality speakers
03-11-2010, 11:53 AM
Post: #1
Staticky sound on quality speakers
Hi Shannon,

I bought a subliminal and am playing it most often on my Compaq Presario laptop with Altec Lansing speakers. However, there is the staticky "pi, pi, pi...pi, pi, pi" sound. I can hear it even when I turn my speakers way down with my ear up to them. I was wondering if the speakers are way down and I can't hear them without putting my ears up close to them, is the subliminal still effective? I'm playing the silent track.

I consider Altec Lansing to be makers of quality speakers...even if they are laptop speakers.
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03-11-2010, 07:04 PM
Post: #2
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Clamshell,

Laptop speakers are notorious. Altec Lansing is generally a decent name but they do sell many speakers that just don't have proper khz ranges for our subliminals. You'll be safe with any speakers 20khz+. Also laptop speakers are fairly underpowered for listening to at a distance. Try it on different speakers, let us know what you find.


(03-11-2010 11:53 AM)Clamshell Wrote:  Hi Shannon,

I bought a subliminal and am playing it most often on my Compaq Presario laptop with Altec Lansing speakers. However, there is the staticky "pi, pi, pi...pi, pi, pi" sound. I can hear it even when I turn my speakers way down with my ear up to them. I was wondering if the speakers are way down and I can't hear them without putting my ears up close to them, is the subliminal still effective? I'm playing the silent track.

I consider Altec Lansing to be makers of quality speakers...even if they are laptop speakers.

Andrew // Site Architect "Attack its weak point for massive damage" -Giant Enemy Crab
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03-11-2010, 07:29 PM
Post: #3
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
(03-11-2010 07:04 PM)subadmin Wrote:  Clamshell,

Laptop speakers are notorious. Altec Lansing is generally a decent name but they do sell many speakers that just don't have proper khz ranges for our subliminals. You'll be safe with any speakers 20khz+. Also laptop speakers are fairly underpowered for listening to at a distance. Try it on different speakers, let us know what you find.


(03-11-2010 11:53 AM)Clamshell Wrote:  Hi Shannon,

I bought a subliminal and am playing it most often on my Compaq Presario laptop with Altec Lansing speakers. However, there is the staticky "pi, pi, pi...pi, pi, pi" sound. I can hear it even when I turn my speakers way down with my ear up to them. I was wondering if the speakers are way down and I can't hear them without putting my ears up close to them, is the subliminal still effective? I'm playing the silent track.

I consider Altec Lansing to be makers of quality speakers...even if they are laptop speakers.

Ok, I will do that. I'm getting a new mp4 player soon, and I'm going speaker shopping for it (so I can play the subliminals all night long). Hopefully those will be better.
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03-12-2010, 01:05 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2010 01:06 AM by Shannon.)
Post: #4
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Yes, make sure the speakers have at least a standard CD recording/playback range of frequency response. Standard is 20 Hz to 20 kHz. I have found some speakers as high as 27 kHz. Talk about silent.

Moving this thread to Troubleshooting.

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03-12-2010, 07:03 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2010 07:04 PM by Shannon.)
Post: #5
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Just got word from a friend using the 2009 Alpha Male training set in the UK that this is the speaker he uses with good results, if it helps:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/XQUISIT-MB-7-POR...126&sr=8-2

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The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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03-13-2010, 01:28 PM
Post: #6
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
(03-12-2010 01:05 AM)Shannon Wrote:  Yes, make sure the speakers have at least a standard CD recording/playback range of frequency response. Standard is 20 Hz to 20 kHz. I have found some speakers as high as 27 kHz. Talk about silent.

Moving this thread to Troubleshooting.

It's funny about that bud speaker. I was strongly considering buying something like that.

I just bought some Altec Lansing computer speakers that i can easily use mp3 players with.
http://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-BXR1...154&sr=8-7

each speaker is180 Hz - 18 kHz

System response is 50 Hz - 18 kHz (-10 db)

I have no real idea what the above means. I hope that it's good enough. The sound quality seems good--but they make the same humming sound that all speakers I've known make. When I cranked up the speakers, I could hear what sounded like voices on the silent track.
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03-14-2010, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2010 04:40 AM by Shannon.)
Post: #7
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
What you purchased, unfortunately, is not standard. I'll explain why.

Basics: Hz stands for Herts, which was a man's name, and which has now been applied to the concept of one cycle per second. So to say a frequency response range for a speaker is 180 Hz to 18 kHz means that the speaker won't start producing sound until it is given a signal that would equate to 180 vibrations per second. The lowest a typical human can hear is 22 Hz, and the lowest standard CD recording and playback frequency is 20 Hz. On the other end, you have your speaker working at a top end of 18 kHz, which is 18,000 cycles per second. Well above what a typical person can make out, but fully 2,000 Hertz below top end hearing and CD recording and playback upper limit. CD format standard is 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Anything but the cheapest speakers will follow this standard, and if what you bought wasn't correspondingly cheap in price, then you got ripped off.

In effect, what you have purchased is sub-standard speakers that were produced sub-standard to even the basic standard CD format specifications, no doubt because most people don't know what that stuff means and can't typically tell the difference anyway. However, our ultrasonic subliminals have a frequency range of 14.5 kHz to 20 kHz, so by limiting the upper band to 18 kHz, you don't cut out all of it, but you do distort it somewhat. It would be about like listening to ocean surf without any treble... it is still recognizable as ocean surf, but will sound off somehow.

Now given that you are dealing with ultrasonics and your system specs (I presume for the laptop) max out at 18 kHz (surprising and disappointing, to be sure - they cut corners everywhere they can these days to make an extra buck I guess), getting better speakers probably will not help unless you are stating that your built-in speakers max out at 18 kHz. If the speakers built in max out at 18 kHz, you should still be able to play 18-20 kHz sounds on standard speakers. In that case, I would either just use the ocean surf, or return your speakers and get some that are designed to at least standard spec for CD playback.

You can probably get results out of such speakers, but we go to great lengths to preserve those parts of the program above 12.5 kHz in pitch because that's where the subliminal audio is in an ultrasonic. So probably is the best I can say - I offer no certainty of success when these programs are played on non-standard speakers with non-standard frequency response ranges.

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03-14-2010, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2010 02:43 PM by Clamshell.)
Post: #8
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
So, what am I looking for, specifically? I'm also on a budget, so I can't afford anything very expensive. Or is the 20 Hz to 20 kHz range all I need? Do you know of any inexpensive speakers that have that range?

If you could tell us the minimum specs, we can print it out, or write it down to show the people at the nearest electronics store. Saying "I want CD quality speakers" seems to be meaningless to all the electronics people I've talked to. And, with the minimum specs, I might be able to find something that I can afford. (What I mean by minimum specs is what's the least system I can get and still have the full effect of the subliminals).

Btw, I took those speakers mentioned above back to Wal-Mart where I got them.

Now I'm worried about all my speakers. Including my mp3 player ear buds. I want to get a good start on the subliminal I bought, asap.

Are there any mp3 ear bud brands that you recommend as well as actual speakers? Maybe people can contribute some names of speakers and such that they are having great results with.

Right now, I'm looking at this speaker: http://www.amazon.com/X-Mini-II-Portable...cr_pr_pb_t I think it's the same thing that your friend in the UK uses. And I think I know where I can get one, tomorrow.
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03-14-2010, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2010 02:34 PM by Shannon.)
Post: #9
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Specifically, you want to look for a frequency response range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz. That is considered standard spec for both recording and playback of CDs. Since you're really interested more in the upper range, you need 20 kHz more than you need 20 Hz, so the upper range is where your focus should be.

Standard speakers with this spec are not hard to find. They are, after all, standard. So when you ask, state that you are looking for a frequency response range of 20 Hertz to 20 kiloHertz, and higher on the top end if they have it - I have seen speakers and headphones that range from 21 kHz maximum to 27 kHz maximum. Higher than 20 kHz will not make a great deal of difference, except that it will reproduce ultrasonic audio much more... silently... shall we say.

Radio Shack usually has something good in this direction. Remember that Wal Mart is the King of Cheap, and to get that cheap, they cut corners all over the place on quality. They get away with it because nobody cares because to most people (non-audiophiles) they can neither tell the difference nor does it matter to them if the speaker plays at standard CD record/playback spec... well, for this, it matters. Ultrasonic subliminals are designed to use the higher end of the standard specification, and mine in particular use the higher end of the higher end.

Frequency response is usually on the box when you are purchasing. It will say something like this:

FR or Frequency Response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz

If you can't find frequency response specified on the box... don't buy it.

The worst I have seen, and the best I have seen, ironically, were both in the same Radio Shack store. The worst was a mono headphone set that had a FR of 150 Hz to 10 kHz. Not three feet away was a stereo headset that had 18 Hz to 27 kHz.

Oh, and by the way, you want stereo - not mono. My subliminals make good use of the stereo audio feature. Momo speakers and headphones will kill the techniques I use to increase effectiveness with that.

This thread has some good info. Making this one sticky.

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The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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03-14-2010, 05:15 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2010 05:16 PM by Clamshell.)
Post: #10
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
So, what I'm looking for is "average"?
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03-14-2010, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2010 05:34 PM by Shannon.)
Post: #11
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
No, lol what you are looking for is, at the very least, built according to the accepted standard of CD specifications for playback.

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The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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03-17-2010, 10:47 AM
Post: #12
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Probably this weekend, I'm going to go find some quality speakers. I Mapquested the local Radio Shack (I'm not living in my home town at the moment). I imagine I will be able to talk to more knowledgeable people at a Radio Shack than what I find at the local Best Buy. And I'm considering buying some Sennheiser headphones for my mp3 player. I assume Sennheisers are good for ultrasonic subliminals?
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03-17-2010, 12:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2010 12:28 PM by Shannon.)
Post: #13
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
The "goodness" depends on the statistics. No brand name is "good enough" if the frequency response isn't there.

The Sennheiser name is German, and German companies typically are extremely focused on accuracy, precision and quality. Their "personal" line of headphones has a top-of-the-line model (the 800s) with the following frequency response rating:

Frequency response (headphones) 6 – 51,000 Hz (- 10 dB), 14 - 44,100 Hz (- 3 dB)

This means that up to a volume of -10 dB, the frequency response starts at 6 Hz (which you would feel, not hear) and goes up to 51 kHz (which puts this headset at around double the maximum I have ever seen before on the high end).

At higher volumes (-3 dB) it has a different response, 14 to 44.1 kHz, which is still superb - the typical human can hear from 18 to 22 Hz at the low end, to sounds with pitches between 18 and 25 kHz on the high end. I am very impressed.

At what I expect is the low end, I see they have headsets with a FR of 22 Hz to 20 kHz. Definitely make it easy to know what FR you're getting. Not the cheapest headphones I ever saw, but you get what you pay for in this case, I suppose.

Oh, and don't expect much from the salespeople at Radio Shack. They probably won't have much of a clue. That's been my experience, anyway.

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The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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03-17-2010, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2010 01:43 PM by Clamshell.)
Post: #14
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Oh well. I printed out the specs you gave in a post above. As long as they or the Best Buy people can read the specs, then I should be fine. No matter what, I will have good speakers by this coming weekend! I understand the subliminals work best when you're sleeping, right?

I'm looking at these Harmon Kardon Soundsticks: http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Produc...sT=0&ovT=1

Or these, as they are less expensive: http://www.jbl.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/...sT=0&ovT=1

Would you pick either these for a speaker?

I hope these are good, as I really don't understand the specs you are giving, I'm sorry to say. In fact, I'm quite confused by them. It sounds like I need a system that costs at least $300 to get good results with the subliminals. Or the specs on the systems that I look at are not complete.

Maybe I will just stick with Best Buy, as it is much easier to get to, where I'm staying at the present time.

And here's the product manual for the Sennheisers that I was thinking about getting: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/media/i3d/0...064906.pdf
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03-17-2010, 06:00 PM
Post: #15
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
The two speakers you link to at the top are capable of playing up to 20 kHz, which is what really matters for ultrasonics. The Sennheisers you link to go to 18 kHz, which isn't high enough.

There's nothing to be confused by. The frequency response represents a rage, and the specs they give are the minimum and maximum frequencies that the product can reproduce. The HKs you link to have a frequency range of 44 Hz to 20 kHz (not standard on the low end, but that really doesn't matter for ultrasonics). The others have a range of 50 to 20k. That works too. As long as they can reproduce 12.5 kHz and up to at least 20 kHz.

I am surprised you're having such a hard time finding standard frequency response ranges.

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03-17-2010, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2010 07:37 PM by Clamshell.)
Post: #16
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Yeah, so am I, since they are supposed to be standard. So, those speakers are good for the subliminals? I especially like the HarmonKardon ones, myself. I'm still going to do some looking at Best Buy this weekend, but I'm on a budget, and those speakers are about as high in price as I want to go.

I think part of my confusion was in thinking that Hz was a larger value than kHz. I had no idea that most of the speakers out there were so crappy.
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03-17-2010, 08:46 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2010 08:56 PM by Clamshell.)
Post: #17
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Ok, so now that I think I know what I'm looking for, a speaker with this FR: # 80-50,000Hz frequency response Impedance: 8 Ohms

is more than what I'm looking for, right? As the range is well beyond 20 kHz. It's at 50kHz. Am I right?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B1000-8-In...294&sr=1-1

Actually, I probably can't do anything with these speakers, as I only have an mp3 player. But I think I understand what I'm looking for, now.
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03-18-2010, 08:40 AM
Post: #18
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
Now that I understand FR, I did some research last night and found that Sony headphones and earbuds are perfect (most of them, anyway) for the subliminals. They are pretty much all in the range and beyond (usually peaking at 22 kHz). I found out these headphones that I own are perfect for the subliminals: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRXD200-MDR-...MVMCDDCYQI

I also found that X Mini capsule speakers are right in the range as well: http://xm-i.com/shop/product.php?product...featured=Y


However, stay away from the X Mini Max, as there's a downgrade to the sound. It only peaks at 18 kHz.
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03-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Post: #19
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
(03-17-2010 08:46 PM)Clamshell Wrote:  Ok, so now that I think I know what I'm looking for, a speaker with this FR: # 80-50,000Hz frequency response Impedance: 8 Ohms

is more than what I'm looking for, right? As the range is well beyond 20 kHz. It's at 50kHz. Am I right?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B1000-8-In...294&sr=1-1

Actually, I probably can't do anything with these speakers, as I only have an mp3 player. But I think I understand what I'm looking for, now.

Those speakers would probably be perfect. And if you "only have an mp3 player" and it has a speaker jack, you can use them. If they have a 1/4" jack, radio shack has a 1/4" to 1/8" jack converter for less than $10.

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The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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03-19-2010, 03:36 PM
Post: #20
RE: Staticky sound on quality speakers
(03-18-2010 08:40 AM)Clamshell Wrote:  Now that I understand FR, I did some research last night and found that Sony headphones and earbuds are perfect (most of them, anyway) for the subliminals. They are pretty much all in the range and beyond (usually peaking at 22 kHz). I found out these headphones that I own are perfect for the subliminals: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRXD200-MDR-...MVMCDDCYQI

I also found that X Mini capsule speakers are right in the range as well: http://xm-i.com/shop/product.php?product...featured=Y


However, stay away from the X Mini Max, as there's a downgrade to the sound. It only peaks at 18 kHz.

I tend to suggest staying away from headphones and earbuds, at least for ultrasonics because you have to be exceptionally careful with the volume. If you're going to use those sort of things for ultrasonics, I suggest you calibrate with normal audio, and then reduce volume by 25 to 50%.

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