Natural Seduction for Men (NSFM) questions

[QuantumEnthusiast]

Wow brilliantly put. I see that this is a very personal topic to you Shannon and it was amazing and wonderful of you to share it. I most definitely agree with all of that. Great post!

Same goes for you CatMan. There is a lot of great insights in both of your posts. Thanks a lot for sharing all that! If you don't mind me asking, what do you think is helping you turn it around and improve with attraction? What qualities and such, in your point of view?

Hi there, and thank you.

As I said in my post, it's down to my subs and my mones. PUA made me spend thousands of dollars, and it didn't work. I always felt it was surface level nonsense that wouldn't really allow a true, lasting connection. I also felt it was more focused on short term dehumanised hookups and used bandaids and overcompensations for deeper problems in a man, deceptive practises or even outright lies to tell women. It seemed fake, orchestrated, and would be detected by a woman as disingenious and cartoonish. I also found a lot of the coaches I worked with, most of the high end names in the industry most people know, on a one on one private coaching basis since I could afford it...to be shallow, and have low levels of confidence when I'd test them. Even having a simple joke about them to see if they can self-deprecate a bit to show me they're healthy and confident enough to vibe with me, would make them whiney and childishly mad at me. I discovered each surprisingly had terribly low confidence...so this endless pursuit of women by them is no doubt IMO, a result of massive neediness, and serious need of external validation, of course also that they can make a business out of it now. In my experiences, I've determined they're nothing but paper tigers...subs and mones have made the change for me.

In about 3 days, I start SM3. The changes will be even more incredible! I've waited my whole life to make these changes...SM3 will be an amazing journey!

Yeah fair enough, I understand. I agree after reading up and checking out most of them, I realized they are shallow and ego driven. You should check out RSDTyler on youtube, he's the ONLY legit PUA I've come across and he himself doesn't like being called a 'pick up artist'. He used to be one of the shallow ones as well, but has a made a huge turn around and is more 'spiritually' inclined. I like his approach to women, he comes from a state of having fun, enjoying and spreading positive vibes; he focuses on making sure he has fun and the girl does as well if they are to join him.

What are mones btw? :p That sounds awesome! You should start a journal/log on it. Would be awesome to know how it'll help you progress!

[AlphaRomeo]

nice post shanon... but what is more effective for getting pssy than pick up beside money and power tell me want to use it

He just did.

[AfzalG]

i am a fan of julien rsd like his pick up
as far as i know tyler was juliens wingman and julien was something like a mentor to him i really think juliens skills are above tylers

however i guess me and catman come from different positions...

i agree that money and power cant give you love but i stopped believeing in love since using wm... i just focus on having a good time with women i appreciate them but dont really like or love them i am emotionally distracted from them... i guess wm makes me a little bit cold and superficial i just focus on status and power concering women


i dont know if this is good or not many guys reported that wm wasnt the right thing for them, but i think every set (am,wm,sm) has its down side... i realized that you cant achive the perfect state in which you will be totally happy and satisfied and what do you mean with rerun i am currently running wm with 66 days with every stage i am running shanons women attraction subs without a break for 2 years or more straigt now so rerun what? i will do am6 and see what happens but stopping wm after 7 months and in the middle of stage 4 would be a waste...

you spoke about the lonely millionaires it wouldn´t bother me if i were a millionaire and women would only like me for my money... they alway like you for something you have... whats the difference if a girl like you for your looks, muscles, youthness, or alphaness or money its always something you have not something you are only your mother will like you for what you are... so if i had the money i would definitly go the easy way

[CatMan]

didnt say there is no other method beside money and power just saying its the fastest way

if you cant attract women with money and power than something is really wrong with you ...

With respect...

If you don't HAVE money or power, which your comments seem to imply you DON'T...then you have no right to say that as you have no idea what you're talking about. They mean a lot less than you think they do. Make no mistake, I can have a ton of goldiggers if I wanted, they always try to get with me everyday, but I know the only reason they want me is my money and power. I'm not needy or desperate enough to sacrifice my self respect just to have users around me. I'd rather be alone than have using scum around me. THAT is an alpha male. Not some peacocking idiot flashing his wealth to get attention from women THROUGH that wealth. It's like those losers in clubs buying all sorts of booze and vip booths so all the club skanks give him attention and him thinking he's so cool as a result...it's so pathetic, approval seeking and just asking to be used and manipulated. None of that is alpha male behaviour. You have some misunderstandings I'm trying to help you with, as I'm on "the other side of the fence" with money and power, so I can speak from experience to benefit you. Honestly, you shouldn't have these views anymore after the subs you've done, you might need a rerun of AM at least, honestly.

There's nothing "wrong" with me besides some issues with women and escalation. I have a healthy attitude with women now. I'm getting attraction now, just a matter of time before escalation feels more comfortable. I had some VERY bad issues with girls when I was young, maybe that's what caused this fear of escalation and connection with them, I have no idea. I resent the insult that something is wrong with me, just because my words of experience don't validate your copout excuse! Come on man, that's not right. Read my earlier post again, it's absolute truth. I took the time to write it to benefit you and show you that you can attract women without all that external money and power nonsense and the logic behind it not being easy mode with women just because of money and power man. So why the insult? We're all here to use the subs and grow, nobody came here without issues beforehand...even you.

Anyway, I took a lot of time to write to try to help you understand the belief you posted of before is a copout and not based on reality by giving you a real perspective from "the other side", and that you're much closer that you think to attracting women. I did that because I thought maybe you're having a down period or something, as you seemed to get a lot of success with women in SM3 which I greatly enjoyed and learned from so I wanted to help out of respect to you. And I was confused why suddenly now you have this viewpoint that contradicts your experiences in SM3, so I wanted to help turn it around. In return, I get insulted. Believe as you will, I'm done spending time on it, fair enough man.

You've done great so far man, many people here have enjoyed reading of your successes, keep those in mind!

[max321]

You guys are both partly wrong and partly right i must say. Money and power do atttract SOME women, and you can get laid no problem, but you have to think about what kind of women go for a man just because of his money.
So the point is, yes, you can bang some 9s, 10s, if you are rich, no problem, but thoose girls are all gold diggers and skanks. If you want a real woman, who loves you for who you are, than you have to work on yourself, and you are on the same ground as the rest of us, she wont care if you are rich or poor, just the way you behave and feel about her will matter. But the problem is, most of the girls who are like that are allready taken.

[CatMan]

You guys are both partly wrong and partly right i must say.

I just wanted to clarify, I wasn't wrong, as I covered that exact issue of gold diggers in my post already.

Anyway, this got way off the original topic of the thread. I merely tried to show someone that I come from money and power and I don't magically have women all over me. It still takes personal development to have attraction, money and power are external constructs that aren't necessary for attraction by any stretch. People seem set in the notion that power and money magically solves problems, them evil 1%'ers have it super easy in life blah blah blah. I'm telling you from first hand experience that's complete nonsense. It's a BS copout victim story. And you don't need those external things like money and power to add value to someone else's life... YOU alone are good enough! Until people understand that, their lives won't change.

I've said what I can about it. It's hard enough for me to change my views and beliefs from poisonous stuff that doesn't serve me to positive things that are actionable, nevermind someone else's. It's up to you to believe what you wish. I won't derail the thread further.

[AfzalG]

honestly and with respect you shouldnt get that easyl insulted if i say there is something wrong with you, but if you say you never dated and even kissed a girl although you are social and extroverted than you have too admit that something is wrong with you and if its only in this area...

let me give you an inside from a guy who also comes from another side the side of now being pretty good with women and game... as you develop you will see there are certain limitations where the only thing you need is money to get over them, if you want to have success with women you will need money for good clothes, going out, going on events and different locations, you will need a better car a better flat and so on theses things makes it dramatically easier to pull hot girls and so on...

thank you for wanting to benefit me but i never said money and power alone is enough to attract women just saying they are very important helps on the way, if this wasnt true wm2 wouldnt have the "attracting good thing in life, success training and so on i...." suggestions

i have read the book "how to be a player" and saw that nearly all ideas in the book are the same as in wm2, and there was an interesting quote in the book "no one said picking up girls is cheap"

i think you guys are misconcepting things you think being a pick up artist or being a womanizer is like being a samurai an honored way but its not ^^ its not more noble to pick up a girl with psychology and learned alpha male traits than to pick up her with money

if you can have gold diggers easily as you say why not make some experience with them why not using them for sex for example... or do you really want to start with normal girls having zero experience...

If you don't HAVE money or power, which your comments seem to imply you DON'T...then you have no right to say that as you have no idea what you're talking about.

in return that means that you shouldnt have the right to make any statement about women either as you seem to not have them as your comment implies :angel:

i will do a rerun of am i will do am6 for 15 months after finishing wm, and then i will start base or bamm as i think that i will have had enough experience with women then


i think i will delete this account since too many poeple feel easily insulted or provocted by me dont see any benefit in posting here if i am meeting always such a resistence

and also the benefit i am getting from this forum now isnt that big anymore since i have cleared nearly every question considering subs for me

[AlphaMind]

If you'll delete this account, Afzal, then I need a way to contact you. IT IS very disappointing that guys like you left this forum, for example like ohmygee and fonzy.

Apparently people who can't accept and tolerate the different perspective of others should shut up. Think deeper because there is a new way to see things.

[FREAK4LIFE]

honestly and with respect you shouldnt get that easyl insulted if i say there is something wrong with you, but if you say you never dated and even kissed a girl although you are social and extroverted than you have too admit that something is wrong with you and if its only in this area...

let me give you an inside from a guy who also comes from another side the side of now being pretty good with women and game... as you develop you will see there are certain limitations where the only thing you need is money to get over them, if you want to have success with women you will need money for good clothes, going out, going on events and different locations, you will need a better car a better flat and so on theses things makes it dramatically easier to pull hot girls and so on...

thank you for wanting to benefit me but i never said money and power alone is enough to attract women just saying they are very important helps on the way, if this wasnt true wm2 wouldnt have the "attracting good thing in life, success training and so on i...." suggestions

i have read the book "how to be a player" and saw that nearly all ideas in the book are the same as in wm2, and there was an interesting quote in the book "no one said picking up girls is cheap"

i think you guys are misconcepting things you think being a pick up artist or being a womanizer is like being a samurai an honored way but its not ^^ its not more noble to pick up a girl with psychology and learned alpha male traits than to pick up her with money

if you can have gold diggers easily as you say why not make some experience with them why not using them for sex for example... or do you really want to start with normal girls having zero experience...

If you don't HAVE money or power, which your comments seem to imply you DON'T...then you have no right to say that as you have no idea what you're talking about.

in return that means that you shouldnt have the right to make any statement about women either as you seem to not have them as your comment implies :angel:

i will do a rerun of am i will do am6 for 15 months after finishing wm, and then i will start base or bamm as i think that i will have had enough experience with women then


i think i will delete this account since too many poeple feel easily insulted or provocted by me dont see any benefit in posting here if i am meeting always such a resistence

and also the benefit i am getting from this forum now isnt that big anymore since i have cleared nearly every question considering subs for me

I am one of the people that is interested in your opinions and experiences on this forum.

I feel I get a huge benefit from reading your posts.

Keep posting, because whatever your truth is you will have 50% supporters and 50% against it.

It should however not stop you from communicating your truth to the world no whatever how high the resistance from any number of individuals. What kind of a man would you be if you shut up and stopped spreading your truth and communication just because you were disagreed with?

Keep them coming I say and don't stop!

[Womanizer]

It's who you are that gets you women and your mindset as well , you can have all the money in the world and that will get you laid if you still have the qualities that led up to making that money.

@AfzalG
Don't delete your account based on disagreements , that's why you're here to give us another outlook. If someone doesn't like what you have to say they can politely excuse themselves or disagree at the end of the day , you can't stop being you based on someone's assumptions of you.

[Shawn]

@AfzalG
Don't delete your account based on disagreements , that's why you're here to give us another outlook. If someone doesn't like what you have to say they can politely excuse themselves or disagree at the end of the day , you can't stop being you based on someone's assumptions of you.

Same here @AfzalG. I don't agree always with you, but I like that contrast.

[Shannon]

AfzalG,

You are a very blunt man. Being blunt is not going to make you friends all the time, because personalities who are very blunt usually lack tact. Telling someone there is "something wrong with them" is a generally insulting thing to do, and that is widely understood by the majority of the population. To you it is just expressing yourself. So CatMan is not responding to you in any very unusual manner by perceiving an insult, even if that may not have been how you were intending it to be taken.

And CatMan, you have to understand that different personalities communicate in different ways. Some people are blunt and tactless, and some are considerate and circuitous. It takes all kinds. There is no need to take it personally enough to be insulted. Some people are just like that as their style of thinking and communication.

There is no need for anyone's ego to be bruised, and there is no need for anyone to run off because they are offended or insulted. We do need to maintain mutual courtesy and respect, however. Even when we disagree.

AfzalG, you seem strongly to be focused right now on simply getting your rocks off. It is what it is. CatMan is focused on finding a relationship that includes sex. That also is what it is. Those are two opposites of the same coin of "getting to sex". His way isn't right for you, and your way isn't right for him. Remember where I said, "If you want to do PUA, then do PUA!" That was me understanding that your path is right for you. I don't necessarily agree with the majority of PUA stuff, and it's not the right path for me, but if you think that's the way that's right for you, then that's valid for you. But it is equally valid for CatMan to be in the situation he is in, and have his own point of view and approach and end goal.

You don't need nice clothes or money or fancy anything to attract good women. You do need those things to attract the more shallow women. A good woman won't need them, and won't care about them because she's interested in and focused on you and your emotional connection with her. A shallower woman will usually be interested in them because she is being competed for based on her looks alone, and she is still playing the BBD game. (Bigger better deal)

There are exceptions and modifiers, of course, but this is generally true.

So for the type of woman AfzalG is interested in, who is generally shallow and not very self aware, money and fancy stuff will achieve AfzalG's goal. But for CatMan, those women are not interesting, worthwhile or right for him and his desires and goals, and so they are not on his radar. The women he is interested in won't be found with PUA and money.

[AfzalG]

very good good post i wanted to say something similiar like this but my english is not the best and like you say i am a very blunt man

by the way what means "focus on getting your rocks off" i used the translator but still dont understand it it seems this sentence doesnt exist in german ...

yeah maybe i would love to get other women but right now there are no women that arent shallow in my reality there are only hot and not so hot ...

perhaps they exist but i never met one or didnt realise anyway good post


edit: ah i understand it means "sich die hörner abstoßen " haha yeah it may be true i dont know, thats how i am perceived all the time i dont see myself like this but it maybe true and i just dont realise it

[CatMan]

Hi Shannon!

I edited this post down...it doesn't matter.

I wasn't upset or whatever, just took issue with the insults when I was just giving a perspective from the other side to show him the belief is limiting and isn't as big of a factor as he thinks, and that he's in a much better positon than he thinks and has already had a lot of success with women. That's all!

I think now it's clear it was a language issue, I didn't realise he isn't a native English speaker.

All is well.

Prost!