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Shannon's Journal Discussion
08-17-2015, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-24-2015 10:27 PM by Superman.)
Post: #1
Shannon's Journal Discussion
Since Shannon's journal is locked we can't really comment our thoughts in that thread. So I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread just for discussion of Shannon's journal so we would have a place to share ideas and opinions about his posts. Maybe it would also benefit him to see his developments from our perspective

I'll delete the thread if it's a bad idea

Feel free to post away.

Shannon's recent developments :
- high end colognes
- 6G technology in progress
- upgrading more 3g subs to 4g or 5g
- eprha 2.0
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08-17-2015, 09:58 PM
Post: #2
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Wanted to do the same thing for ages Smile Good idea!
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08-17-2015, 11:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-17-2015 11:41 PM by Voytek.)
Post: #3
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Can`t wait till Shannon develops 6G and "writes" AM7 and WM3 with this technology. Big Grin That`s all from me. Cool! Tongue
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08-18-2015, 04:30 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2015 04:31 PM by ImFreeman.)
Post: #4
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Nah, im gonna be 50 before we see some 6G at the pace Shannon is going.

I do not understand why he wants to monetize perfumes and invests time in that when there are several things negative business wise about perfumes (compared with subs), like massive competition, i mean absolutly massive once you think about it, distribution of physical goods (compared with digital), ultra oversaturated market

On the other hand you are the best subliminal producer in the world, your offerings have no competition, your products are unique that solve problems people have, your distribution method is digital, which means instanteneous and CHEAP, etc etc ect.
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08-18-2015, 08:08 PM
Post: #5
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Well, I believe Shannon was a producer of some high end super effective pheromone colognes and has continued to practice his perfumery skills in between producing subs by making these colognes which I don't believe contain any pheromones.

I also believe that we will have a 6g sub in some shape or form released in the store by this time next year. I don't know why, just a feeling. I think he's pretty far along in his research and maybe the end goal he is trying to achieve might not be 6g, it might be 7g instead.

He might just say enough is enough for now, and use the tech in its current state to make 6G because going by the journal updates it's already plenty powerful.
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08-18-2015, 08:48 PM
Post: #6
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Honestly, from the previous posts on Shannon experimenting with pheromones I'd love to have some guaranteed sexual attraction using them to boost any results from subs.

A Better Alex (ISTJ): EPRHAASC → …
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08-18-2015, 08:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
I'm also curious about the perfume created by Shannon. I wonder why Shannon does not sell them online.

“Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.” ― Confucious “If you love life, don't waste time, for time is what life is made up of.” ― Bruce Lee
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08-18-2015, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2015 10:29 PM by Voytek.)
Post: #8
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Shannon is not a robot to do only subs work, he has right to realize his hobbies and passions. It seems to me that those perfumes are a little hobby for him, so give him a break boys. He has done for us amazing things and we should be grateful and don`t complain. Smile I`m very curious about his perfumes effectiveness. If they`re so effective as subs, man, we all should have one in our bathrooms. Wink
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08-18-2015, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2015 11:22 PM by Spareness.)
Post: #9
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
It was already in my mind as well. Shannon was able to develop a subliminal into incredible products.

But I began to realize is the marketing division. Another subliminal company I know, they tout their products at many places on the Internet.

Even their products, I think less effective.
But I guess they market their products well enough.

All it takes is making a lot of people from all over the world who are looking for self-development products can find incredible products from Subliminal Shop.

“Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.” ― Confucious “If you love life, don't waste time, for time is what life is made up of.” ― Bruce Lee
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08-19-2015, 06:53 AM
Post: #10
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
(08-18-2015 08:55 PM)wahyu Wrote:  I'm also curious about the perfume created by Shannon. I wonder why Shannon does not sell them online.

I hope when is he finished creating them, that he gives us a website where we can buy them.

"Don't be afraid to give up the good to go for the great" John D. Rockefeller
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08-19-2015, 08:12 AM
Post: #11
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Regarding to perfumes, if/when Shannon starts to sell them online and they contain pheromones and/or smells as great as he is aiming at ("the sexy version" of paradise he mentions) I will buy one (or dozen) the second the store opens. If not online, how the heck can we buy them? Did he previously only sell to his close friends or old costumers or what...and how/where is he planning to sell from now on, Shannon?

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08-19-2015, 09:26 AM
Post: #12
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
To answer your questions, gentlemen...

I am doing colognes as a potential business because working on subliminals all the time is a huge investment in mental energy in a specific direction, and as the complexity grows so does the exhaustion. I know 6G development is going slowly. Believe me I know, I'm the one banging my head against the wall for more than a year now wondering, "What the hell is it I am still missing?" Every week or two I adjust the script to deal with a new thing, and every week or two it gets significantly more effective, and every week or two I realize... it needs more work. BUT! I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and the end goal is beginning to be realized in the results at this point, just within the last 2 versions. The last four experiments have been VERY satisfactory, although they are pale versions of what the final will do.

Back to colognes, though, I am interested in them for the following reasons:

1. I need to do something besides subliminals so I can maintain interest and be productive given the ridiculous mountain I am climbing with 6G development. Who else would you find who can develop it for over a year, with only minor improvements every month (relative to the end goal), and still keep going? It gets depressing to try so hard and make so much effort and still have to take baby steps. For a long time, I wasn't even sure the end goal was reachable. So since I don't watch TV much, or do the sports thing or gym or whatnot, when Andrew introduced me to the idea of perfumery, and my personal cologne creation was so popular that it began to sell without me doing anything but wearing it, I realized... here is a way for me to decompress, express my creative side, and make money all at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, some of these colognes are starting to really piss me off trying to get them right. (I'm looking at you, Paradise!) But I'm teaching myself perfumery here. Do you realize that from what I am told, it usually takes around 10 years and at least $75k to become a decent perfumer? And that's with formal training. I am teaching myself, and within 2 years will have produced a handful of high end colognes that are so good that people are asking for them before I'm even finished making them! Just this morning, at breakfast, I had a bottle of one such that I don't have a name for yet and I had Formula #43 and #44. It's a unisex. My waitress loved #43 so much that she asked me how much to buy the sample vial. I personally can't wait to make a bottle for myself. And I haven't even finished adding and tweaking all the ingredients yet! And she wasn't the only one there who said they really loved it. This is something I have been working on off and on for a few months, with a very small budget and around 2 years of self training.

I have concluded that the perfumery thing is a result of BAMM.

Yes, it's a physical product. Yes, it's got a lot of issues we originally didn't want to deal with. But while there is a lot of competition in perfumery and the advertising and marketing and shipping and packaging is ridiculously expensive for the sort of stuff you see big companies doing (it can be a multi-million dollar budget just to launch a single scent for them), we are not locked in to doing it "their way". I can make a batch and offer it to you on a website and it doesn't have to have a multi-million dollar budget, because it doesn't have to sell a million bottles to satisfy a million shareholders. What it does have to do is make me happy enough with it to offer it to you, and you happy enough to pay us for it and consider it a fair exchange. Actually, what I have in mind is to make these so good that you'll conclude that we are slightly under-charging, but that depends on factors I may not be able to control, like the price of really rare and hard to get natural ingredients this season.

What I have in mind is something like a vintage system. Each year, we'll produce a batch of each and that's all we make. Maybe the 2015 batch of X is perhaps 5 gallons, or maybe 200 bottles. Each one is individually numbered and stamped with the year of vintage and therefore becomes a rare and valuable collector's item, on top of being a great scent. Maybe the next year we increase production a bit. Maybe not. And it won't be cheap, but whenever possible we'll try to find, like I said, a price point at which the value exceeds the price. We want every batch to sell out. Unlike for big companies, it's not about profits here and noting else. We're going to be an artisinal perfume house, and mass production isn't necessarily the goal. My goal, and Andrew's goal, is a product so good you really value and appreciate it. So doing things this way, we don't have to spend all of our time on it. And then I can still work on subs, and everybody wins.

In other words, just because the big guys are doing it, doesn't mean we have to. Oh, and if I have my way, we will be proudly IRFA non-compliant, too. That means that instead of trying to force the formulas to match and fit into restrictions that lab techs come up with for making perfumes as hypo-allergenic as possible, we will be producing perfumes and colognes that smell as good as possible, last as long as possible and are as worthy of their price as possible. In my opinion, the IRFA is killing the perfumery industry. Instead of making perfumes to be hypo-allergeneic when less than 1% of the populace is having allergic reactions, how about we focus on making them the best they can be and then ask people to take personal responsibility for their use of them instead? And this is coming from someone who happens to be allergic to some of the components he is formulating with! (Paradise has one, and the unnamed one I mentioned has one too.) If you wear a cologne that triggers an allergy in someone else, then you have the responsibility to not wear it around them or to work out how you can find a workable compromise with them. And those of us (me included) who are allergic to certain things in colognes and perfumes) need to be reasonable in our responses and demands of those who wear them, too.

When we have a small selection of exceptional fragrances ready, we'll set up a store that's linked here to offer them and let you know.

6G is taking so long because I am basically blazing new ground in the field. It's very challenging for even someone as knowledgeable and skilled as I am, and it's about the equivalent of me teaching myself a graduate or postgraduate degree in the subject. It's going to take time. But even if I was to stop now, the results would amaze you once they filtered down to products you could use. In fact most of the technologies in 6G are going to be stuff I can't even tell you about because I don't want competitors trying to copy my work! But there are literally dozens of them. And you'll see how well they work for yourself.

As close as I am to finishing achieving the goal of 6G's prototype, I am at the point where very little surprises me anymore. I mean literally, anything is going to be possible if I can achieve the goal I set for this. The question, once 6G is developed, is not "can we?" but "what do we need to know to design an instruction set that, in 6G format, will result in the goal?" The more intractable problems require very advanced understanding to make work even in 6G. That's why I picked the goal I did for 6G's prototype, and that's why it's taking me so long to figure out.

If the challenge is a diamond and the goal is a brilliant cut polished stone, I have to basically cut a facet of the gem, and then observe how the light bounces around inside it, determine where it's going that I don't want it going and where it's not going that I do, calculate a solution, and then cut another single facet and repeat. I can't just sit down and mathematically calculate the final shape because this is not a hard science we're dealing with. We're also not dealing with a group of people who all have the same properties. Gemcutters can learn the properties of a diamond, and then those properties are the same even if the diamond is flawed. I have to figure out the properties of a dynamic system with an infinite potential for uniqueness and then design a dynamic system to account for all possible variations. You try it sometime and see if it doesn't take a while. Smile

As for pheromones, I'm not planning to be working directly with pheromones in my colognes. That I think I can safely leave to our good friend and very competent PheroMaster, Steve Osborne. That's not to say that I might not include one or two special components in special editions of a scent which might act as aphrodisiacs. But they won't be pheromones.

I'm actually planning to formulate my stuff to take advantage of the natural aphrodisiac effects of the components, such that the ratios, components and doses amplifies them to a useful and appreciable degree without pheromones. That I believe I can do, and that is part of why I am getting the results I am with people responding to the stuff I have made so far.

I believe that the reason things smell good to us always boils down to one of two reasons:

1. You can eat it.
2. You can have sex with it.

The primal brain responds to those two things, but in being so primitive, makes mistakes and responds to things we cannot eat or have sex with. But with a twist. For example:

A. Some flowers smell good. We certainly don't have sex with flowers, and we also we don't eat most flowers. The ones we do (artichokes, broccoli, cauliflower) don't smell good. What gives? This can be explained by the fact that of what a flower is. Basically, a flower is a plant's blatant public display of it's sex organs. It's saying, "Hey, anyone who will notice, dome and help me get it on! Get that pollen all over me baby!" So the primitive brain smells sex, and responds with attraction, even though it's not a signal we can actually respond to with sex - but notice how effective certain flowers are as aphrodisiacs? Rose, jasmine, gardenia, tuberose, ylang-ylang, lavender and others are all known to be aphrodisiac, and when blended properly, will help trigger arousal in humans!

B. Fresh, clean laundry smells good. But you obviously don't have sex with it, and you obviously don't eat it. How can my idea be correct if that's true? Well, consider WHY it smells good: the detergents and dryer sheets have in them not only flower scents, but musks. That "fresh clean laundry scent" is really the result of certain types of musk, such as one called "galaxolide" which is famous for this. And what is musk? Natural musk is a signal that one gender (often male) of a species is ready to reproduce. In other words, musk is a sex signal, an aphrodisiac, and humans respond to it for that reason. We may not always respond with sexual arousal - a lot of synthetic musks are attractive but not erogenic to us, but they're attractive ultimately because they trigger that "I smell someone ready for sex!" part of the brain. And yes, there are some musks that do actually act as an aphrodisiac for humans, too.

By the way, I'd like to point out, here, that in my perfumery, I won't be using anything that requires harm to an animal to acquire. If I use musks, they'll be lab synthesized. If I use civet, it'll be lab synthesized. If I use castoreum, it will either be lab synthesized or come from animals that were killed for another reason and which would otherwise be thrown away. And of course ambergris does not come from whales that were harmed to get it, because it requires years and perhaps decades of floating around in the ocean to develop the chemistry that makes it worthy of use in perfumery. (I also use lab synthesized ambergris molecules, and these come from plant sources in most cases.) Any real ambergris I use will come from certified beach-found sources.

I am not going to worry about making my stuff hypo-allergenic in most cases. If you're allergic, I apologize. But I have found that allergies to the stuff I use are really rare and unusual. For example, I am allergic to what I use in a couple of my colognes not because they are typical allergens, but because I went through chemotherapy and during that they gave me a chemical called "bleomycin", which means my lungs are screwy as a result. The result is that I'm allergic to things like... rum. Eucalyptus. Marijuana. Eggplant. Cigarette smoke. The vast majority of people are actually not allergic to the things I use. I prefer natural sources whenever possible, even though it is harder to make last, harder to make consistent from batch to batch, and more expensive by far. So allergies will not be a serious concern for perhaps 99.99% of the population, just as they never have been before.

And as for competition being fierce in the perfume industry? Sure, it's incredibly fierce - but a top quality product at a reasonable price is always going to gain attention and interest. And it will have the least expensive and best marketing of all: word of mouth.

My goal for what I create is to trigger an addiction response when you smell it. Not because it is actually addictive, but because it smells SO good that you want to smell it again and again. That no matter how much you smell it, you still want to smell it more. When I achieve that, I know I have something good. And it's really hard to do that. Really hard. But that's my goal, and that's why some of these are driving me nuts. Paradise is on revision #174 and still isn't right yet. I'm a lot closer, and the use of the sweet lime is really helping... it's gorgeously rich, complex, full bodied and sexy. But the balance isn't all there yet for the whole thing, and I can't release it knowing it's not right yet. Even if I have people telling me, "You're nuts, it's been sellable since #66!" Maybe. But has it been able to make me happy? Until it does that, I don't care if it's "good enough". "Good enough" isn't what I'm trying to create.

Subliminal Audio Specialist & Administrator

The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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08-19-2015, 10:10 AM
Post: #13
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Shannon’s usage of BAMM has a lot to do with him doing subliminals AND the perfume stuff. If you look at the script for BAMM it’s just a bigger and more concentrated version of BASE (which I’m using) and I’ve already felt its immersive nature; the need to dig into ideas that are both passionate and profitable.

For Shannon subliminals are the main biz and while he does perfume on the side. For me I have my traffic biz as the main and my publishing biz on the side. While I am not a user of BAMM I completely understand the obsessive want to innovate, but of also being pulled in 10 different directions with projects. Your mind, as suggested by the subs, is pulled in the direction of money producing ideas that work, and several of those projects could potentially pulls lots of $$$. It just sucks that we can physically only work on so few things at once while having so much on our plates.

I think we really need to understand the struggle of literally being the best of the industry in this case. There’s no doubt that Shannon is a master subliminal producer. I don’t say that lightly either. He is the best, hands down.

So while it might take him quite a while to get things together, we just have to appreciate the masterpieces that he has created as he creates them rather than sulk that our preferred subs aren’t done yet. There are certain subs I’d love to be made, but I’m pretty sure they’re one of those way down in the queue to be made in due time.

We can’t get impatient with this. It’s understandable that we do, but using the best products available comes at a cost, and that cost in this case tends to be time rather than money.

Spiritual Warrior - Illuminating the world one thought at a time...

>> LTU > BASE 2.1 > EPRHA 2.0 > BASE 2.1 > MLS 3.0

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08-19-2015, 10:13 AM
Post: #14
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Thank you for the greatly informative and interesting post Shannon. Can´t wait for the first releases...I hope you will be shipping worldwide! (Europe here).

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08-19-2015, 11:37 AM
Post: #15
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Great thread, great post Shannon, you are truly awesome, it is a pleasure to read what you write.
I'll surely buy your perfume even if they cost a lot, they seems awesome. I can understand why you like to create some perfume as it is a pure joy to the senses. I would say perfume to me is like listening to a great music, it can lead to an euphoric experience where you truly enjoy yourself.

I have been experimenting with perfume recently, just some lemon scent alone can be euphoric, addictive to the senses.
Can you share where you buy the lime oil? if it's not a secret. I would like to smell this single note and what you shared about it seems awesome.

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Only the madman is absolutely sure. Robert Anton Wilson
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08-19-2015, 02:35 PM
Post: #16
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
I'd prefer not to reveal my suppliers for obvious reasons. But, I'm hoping to have the chance to offer you guys some less expensive options that consist of single ingredients alone, such as this gorgeous lime oil, or any of about 25 other things I enjoy by themselves. This is not guaranteed, however, since I have to rely on others for their willingness to do certain jobs that entails, who may not be willing to do those jobs or handle the volume that might generate. We'll see as we get closer.

As for shipping outside the United States, I'm not sure yet that we can do that, as I work currently in an alcohol base. Once I have some scents created, I can potentially consider trying to translate some of them to an oil base, which would be much easier to ship internationally; but so far, just using fractionated coconut oil instead of alcohol has not produced the desired results.

I'm going to try to offer my scents in sample size (probably a 2, 3 or 5 mL sprayer) and standard size (50 mL sprayer) at least, and perhaps larger bottles (100 mL) as well. We are likely not going to be able to offer refunds on the scents, so I would ask that you make sure that you genuinely like it before you buy a 50 mL or larger bottle. No matter how much I try to make it perfect, scent is subjective, and not everyone will like them.

Subliminal Audio Specialist & Administrator

The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
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08-19-2015, 09:56 PM
Post: #17
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
the colognes sound intriguing so i might buy.
im really interested in how overpowered the ayps can be made. if it makes it effective faster than say 90 days, i'll buy that too.

INTJ - Assertive
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08-21-2015, 07:21 AM
Post: #18
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
@shannon - instead of breast enlargement (5g or 6g) - any chance to finish your sleep subs? Would help a lot more of us....
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08-21-2015, 10:15 AM
Post: #19
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
Well he has already made progress on improving the breast enlargement sub, so I think it would be easier to finish something than start something from scratch.

The only thing I hope is that the increased speed and size of growth doesn't cause stretch marks. Cuz no one likes big stretch mark filled breasts
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08-22-2015, 07:54 AM
Post: #20
RE: Shannon's journal discussion
(08-19-2015 09:26 AM)Shannon Wrote:  The result is that I'm allergic to things like... rum. Marijuana.

I wonder how you found that out Wink
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