UD - Short Term Test and Waiting for DMSI 3.2

[Shawn]

I have been contemplating if I should start this sub now as next month I cannot listen to any sub for about two weeks but I decided to run it until the end of the month and see how it is affecting me. Here are some brief summaries from my offline journal.

Day 1: I started with 3 loops to get used to it. After about half the loop I noticed some unusual feelings in my gut and some sort of pain in my liver area. First night I had a dream about this girl I cannot let go. After waking up I realized that one reason it is so hard to let her go completely is that there are unsolved things between us and I want a solution to these things. This might not be possible at all but at least the dream gave me a good solution on an emotional level and after waking up I also got emotional.

Day 4: In the last few days I didn't notice anything special. Still some pain in the liver area and strange gut feelings. There are moments where I remember past things but I don't feel that much pain around these, it seems more detached from the pain than before. Body-wise my excrements are stinky as hell, and I mean it really. Other than that my coughing got better. I already supposed this might be toxin related as other stuff didn't change much. Only MHS gave me also some relief but there is also a detoxification module. In regard to my mood I feel calm and peaceful most of the time.

Day 8: I remembered a past scene which made me really sad because I did some mistakes with people. I remembered few of the mistakes and I realized that I might have developed the belief "Subs make only everything worse" at that time which probably is affecting the execution of subs. It is because I did most of the mistakes mentioned above at my SM3 run. It's not like I am blaming the sub or something but the thing is I did what I did because I got empowered by the sub to stand up for myself. But I simply went overboard and hurt people for almost nothing and also hurt myself as a result for going overboard. I think I still fear I switch into destruction mode if I get empowered. It might be not possible to prevent something completely while growing but I think one reason for me was the lack of interpersonal skills which let me do things that dramatic. There should be something that gives you a minimum amount of required interpersonal skills in the normalization stage in future multistage subs as well as in other subs related to growth/interpersonal relationships. Maybe the things hadn't been that bad with such a module.

[Shawn]

Day 11: Not much to report. I feel sometimes extremely horny while listening to UD. Other than that I noticed that I started to clean my flat and dispose stuff. Detoxing my environment? I also started eating more fruits.

[Shawn]

Day 12: I started this day with the feeling that I should give up on women and focus on myself instead. I mean I have put that much energy and time on this topic with almost no return so these thoughts may be not that surprising. Anyway, just curious what the sub is doing here.

[findingme]

Day 12: I started this day with the feeling that I should give up on women and focus on myself instead. I mean I have put that much energy and time on this topic with almost no return so these thoughts may be not that surprising. Anyway, just curious what the sub is doing here.

I'm running UD, I haven't run DMSI or SM, but I've had a long term goal (way before subs) of loving and accepting myself, not depending on others to supply that. As I've lived life, I've found it very difficult since my training is to do very opposite things--mentally, physically, and socially.

Your statement of giving up women I took on myself when I read it, as I've "depended" on women to do nothing less than validate my manliness. It just looks like I NEED them. And neediness sucks the life out of any relationship, any at all. Healthy women see it and run.

Thanks for being brave enough to make that statement. It took guts.

[Shawn]

Looks like I am facing some resistance because in the last 2 - 3 days I was eating tons of sweets and sugar and also drinking more coffee than usual. The way I feel it looks like I am experiencing a huge candida growth. I was also playing a lot of video games, more than for years. But not sure if this is also resistance or simply taking care of myself and just enjoying what I like.

Today I spent the day with few people and there is one girl I felt some attraction towards. But it was different than usual because usually when this happens I get more and more thoughts what it would be like to have sex with her. This time this happened too, but to a much lesser degree. Most of the time I simply enjoyed her presence and the attraction I felt and didn't think too much about sleeping with her which indicates decreased neediness. Still, my thoughts about my (future) success with women are mostly negative even if I don't think too much about this topic right now.

[Shawn]

I didn't update for a while because what was happening was very subtle. Few day after last post I have had some more obvious physical detoxification again. My cravings for sugar decreased noticeably but not yet completely but no cravings more for coffee (I have to note here that I didn't drink a lot of coffee before anyway). The interesting thing is I have had some thoughts/feelings that UD can tear down the wall between me and other people so that a connection could happen. But it was so subtle that I am not sure if it is real or just imagination. So far my brief update, few days more before I have to stop.

[Shawn]

Ok, like said in my last post few days after the post I had to stop for reasons I cannot go into detail here. However, after that time I listened to this sub again for about two weeks. What I can tell is, in my break I had a lot of attraction from women. Not the over-the-board ones, it felt more like natural attraction. It looks like the sub also killed a lot of neediness. Before, when I saw a good looking woman I really NEEDED to look at her, check out her tits or ass or the body in general. Now it is more like I take a look sometimes but it doesn't feel like I need to. I wouldn't even say it is disinterest, it is also not the kind of IDGAF where you just don't give a fuck to show her that you don't need her (which felt somehow artifical), it is more like I focus on myself and therefore don't give them much of attention. Interesting enough, it looks like it turns them on. So it may sound for some people like a step back from women but for me it feels like a step forward for some reason.

Saying this I don't think that the attraction itself is created by UD. I think it is DMSI shining (maybe also AM/SM to some degree, don't know). I mean I have pretty much a year of DMSI on my belt (even if you consider the two breaks I took and the few days here and there where I switched into something different out of resistance). So it is more likely the UD removed some of the things that prevented the long term programming from DMSI to shine.

Other thing I noticed is that my attitude to women changed. It is like UD removed the toxic believes I got after discovering the red pill stuff. I mean it is important to be aware of how women are but it doesn't help to hate them all or something. Before, I felt that I don't even need to care for creating something long term because she would jump into bed with the next asshole she finds anyway. Now I feel more like there could be someone I come along with for a long time. Not saying here that problems doesn't exists or can't happen, it is more like it could be worth anyway.

I also notice physical effects of UD. I need less sleep and feel more rested. And my sleep schedule is better. I also found (by accident or not) some stuff which can help me to tweak my eating habits for better. And there is also less coughing than before. I am planing to continue the sub when I am back and can listen to subs again.

[Shawn]

Ok, I stopped UD about two weeks ago. With all the breaks I used it for bit more than two month, but not at once. Besides body detox I noticed that I am usually more open emotion wise and can faster disconnect from emotional toxic topics. It is a very subtle sub at all.

On NYE I was out. I had at least five women there who seemed interested, with two of them it was more noticeable than with others. One of them looked so often in my direction that I started to feel uncomfortable. The other one was really cute. None of them approached me and I didn't approached any of them. Note to myself: I need more balls.

I have been thinking about the reason why I didn't do anything and the first answer I got was "fear of rejection". Then I tried to find out why there was fear of rejection and I discovered that this is because "fear of failure". I also found out that the fear of failure is connected to women because in my other life areas it is not that much present. And first I couldn't find out why there was so much fear of failure but today after waking up I realized "I want to fulfil women's expectations". Which is no wonder since I was most time raised by my mother and grandmother because my dad and grandpa were working a lot. And when I look at todays society it is like all the society is trying to fulfil women's expectations. However, I really need to leave it behind and start fulfilling my own expectations, no matter if I loose or win women as result. So far.

By the way, does anyone have a good approach for tinder? And things what I can talk about on tinder. I have had some matches recently but all I figured out were boring things and therefore got no response.

[SargeMaximus]

Note to myself: I need more balls.

Lol, that made me chuckle.

I've got the same issue, I'm doing a new form of "game" which is basically: be social with everyone." My balls shrunk as soon as I went out with the intention to do it.

As for tinder, no idea. but this might help you get the right frame/mentality for texting: http://www.manwhore.org/how-to-text-a-girl-you-like/

[Shawn]

Note to myself: I need more balls.

Lol, that made me chuckle.

I've got the same issue, I'm doing a new form of "game" which is basically: be social with everyone." My balls shrunk as soon as I went out with the intention to do it.

As for tinder, no idea. but this might help you get the right frame/mentality for texting: http://www.manwhore.org/how-to-text-a-girl-you-like/

Thanks for the link, I will take a look at the article.

[Shawn]

Just for my own reference:

Very rational theory there. I agree with it, entirely plausible. I often think sex is impossible or seems so far away or dating/relationships are, so no doubt my subconscious does of course.

I am familiar with. Just yesterday I had to think back about a situation on MYP where I almost got sex (but sabotaged the situation for good). Man, this seemed sooo out of my reality, really strange.

"Out of my reality" is usually translated "I can't allow myself to believe this is possible." Which results in it not being possible in a lot of cases.

The worst thing is, after writing the post I had a moment of "pride" that this is out of my reality. Really curious why my subconscious seem to have as goal the exact opposite of what I want consciously

"Out of my reality" is usually translated "I can't allow myself to believe this is possible." Which results in it not being possible in a lot of cases.

The worst thing is, after writing the post I had a moment of "pride" that this is out of my reality. Really curious why my subconscious seem to have as goal the exact opposite of what I want consciously

It's a funny phenomenon, isn't it?

I've noticed it's a pretty common thing, especially among Slavs for some reason. It's like taking pride in enduring something that's: a) unpleasant and unproductive, b) easily fixed with a change in beliefs. Among Slavic people, it often takes the form of what I like to call "the Who's Got it Worse" Olympics:

Slav A: "I've just worked 14 hours for, like, 8 potato per hour! And I've got to get up at 5:30 AM tomorrow! 3 hours of sleep for me again! Also, my boss is a dong and nobody likes me!"

Slav B: "Yeah? Well, I just worked 14 hours *for free*, have not slept in 3 days and also I just found out my wife's cheating on me but we've still got 10 years' worth of mortgage to pay back! Also I've sprained my ankle and have no money until next month... and it's the 3rd!"

Slav A: "Whoa, mad respec, bro!"

Slav B: "Yeah, I know, I try." *buys a bottle of vodka to celebrate*

Oh, yeah, know what you are talking about. Like a competition who has the hardest life, who has the most debt, the worst wife, work,.... But here it seems like here is also something else in play, social programming about how you should be the "best nice guy" and not being interested in sex, treat women well and be a real gentleman - in opposite to the "assholes" who are after sex and aren't nice to women (but get laid). Like being proud to be better then they are - even if it isn't better in reality. The more I think about it the more details come in my mind. But, honestly, I need to get rid of this ***** shit to be able to get to the good stuff - somehow. It is ridiculous how persistent this stuff is, after all these subs and books.

Edit: From this point of view it makes even sense to resist this sub, because from my subconscious point of view it makes me ultimately worse instead better by turning me into this "lusty guy" who goes after sex and women - which is the opposite of being the ideal guy who understands women and who is the guy "women want" - by terms of the society programming.

[Shawn]

The posts in the previous thread made me think a lot and I feel like I am closer to the root of my issues with women than ever before. I also realized that this is not only social programming but also the fact that I don't want disappoint my family by becoming a jerk with women and breaking with traditional matters in regard to women. And under the surface it seems like there is only a binary choice between being the super nice guy with a "clean slate" or becoming a jerk who is abusive and use women without caring about them at all - even if I know there is not only the binary choice and there is a lot of space between the two extremes.

[Shawn]

I have been thinking about the negative competition thing again. So if "worst life and most problems" = "most success" then I wonder if some people don't even resist and reverse the script but simply execute according to the subconscious definition of success, which is indead the opposite of what should be. Just a thought I had. Anyway, if this is the case then already the PTPA module could bring a major change.

[Shawn]

Update time. Today I have been thinking about happiness and luck and I asked myself why can't I have things that makes me happy. My inner response was "There is always a price and you have to pay for if you become happy. The better you do the higher the price". This was followed by a lot of religious stuff, like "being lucky is a s** (rule4)", or "you get punished", all rule 4 related. Last thing came in my mind was "You are only safe if you are at the bottom".

But I also had interesting TID experiences. For example one day I saw a group of few girls and I started having having thoughts like "you could try to start to experiment and simply say something and see their reaction". It felt rather playful than something I had to do. It didn't last long but still interesting because I usually want to know what I do instead of experimenting. Another thought was about starting being more social with people in general just for its own purpose instead of expecting something.

Other than that I also had some (probably) resistance based reactions. For example few days ago I started to worry about sex related injuries and accidents but the thoughts faded to a large degree. Another thing is I experienced some kind of energy overload where I felt like too much coffee and could only sleep for about three hours the night. Probably caused by a combination of not masturbating and the girlfriend of my neighbour visiting him (their sleeping place in next to mine). After masturbating it went down again, but even then I didn't feel a lot of urge to do so. This overload happend only once so far.