chaosvrgn's REAL results ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) (A DMSI v3.1 Exploration)

[SargeMaximus]

Ok, but when I had none of that I had girls approaching me asking me what I was doing that day/weekend. Now that I have some of that I don't so yeah. Realz before feelz.

[Shannon]

Mr. N=1 has spoken!

[SargeMaximus]

Mr. N=1 has spoken!

Can't that be applied backwards as well? So maybe my examples are 2 isolated incidents, but out of the hundreds of women I've come across since improving these things, nothing. What is that, then? N=-346?

[chaosvrgn]

You cannot derive any meaningful data from N = 2. You are basing your entire philosophy on approaching and meeting women on the most insignificant piece of "data," if you even want to call it that, considering the fact that there's a million other variables that aren't being considered.

If going unbathed and unkempt was so superior than the other extreme, why aren't you getting MORE women in your current state? Why aren't more mouthbreathing omegas getting more women? You really think that there's something special about just YOU that allows you to smell bad and wear nasty clothes and still get women?

This nonsense is tied to a much deeper trauma that exists within you, one that you've mentioned time and time again -- an unwillingness to do anything for women, especially when it comes to them receiving any kind of pleasure from it. And in your mind, you've clearly associated most forms of self-improvement as "doing it for women's pleasure," and you're rejecting it. And your way of resisting / rebelling is to make yourself as unattractive as possible, so in the off chance that you do attract a woman, she'll receive no social value or status or pleasure from being with an attractive man (because you are quite handsome), while you receive all benefit.

You need to flip your thought process. You're literally holding yourself back from greatness because of this fear of women receiving benefits from your hard work. That's just the way of the world, man. People are going to try and take your value and for free if they can. You just have to be cognizant of it and adjust the "contract" so that it either favors you or gives you favorable terms. Every human interaction has a transactional value. Every interaction. There's no way to avoid it, there's no way to change it. It's pretty much natural law.

[SargeMaximus]

You cannot derive any meaningful data from N = 2. You are basing your entire philosophy on approaching and meeting women on the most insignificant piece of "data," if you even want to call it that, considering the fact that there's a million other variables that aren't being considered.

If going unbathed and unkempt was so superior than the other extreme, why aren't you getting MORE women in your current state? Why aren't more mouthbreathing omegas getting more women? You really think that there's something special about just YOU that allows you to smell bad and wear nasty clothes and still get women?

I'm not unkempt or unbathed in my current state. I've been keeping near-OCD level hygeine for a while now. By your logic I should be swimming in pussy.

This nonsense is tied to a much deeper trauma that exists within you, one that you've mentioned time and time again -- an unwillingness to do anything for women, especially when it comes to them receiving any kind of pleasure from it. And in your mind, you've clearly associated most forms of self-improvement as "doing it for women's pleasure," and you're rejecting it. And your way of resisting / rebelling is to make yourself as unattractive as possible, so in the off chance that you do attract a woman, she'll receive no social value or status or pleasure from being with an attractive man (because you are quite handsome), while you receive all benefit.

It's cause I'm confused.

All this "be your own man" "don't put women on a pedestal" "don't supplicate" talk has me confused because the ONLY reason I'm improving myself is for women and money. I don't give a f*ck either way.

BUT, you seem to be ignoring the fact that I AM showering, improving my social skills, and etc.

I AM doing all that you say I'm not.

MY POINT is that it's not working.

You need to flip your thought process. You're literally holding yourself back from greatness because of this fear of women receiving benefits from your hard work. That's just the way of the world, man. People are going to try and take your value and for free if they can. You just have to be cognizant of it and adjust the "contract" so that it either favors you or gives you favorable terms. Every human interaction has a transactional value. Every interaction. There's no way to avoid it, there's no way to change it. It's pretty much natural law.

Yeah well I keep asking you to clarify this so I can do exactly that because I have no idea how to otherwise.

Write a book with actionable "how to" steps with clear indicators in it so I know I'm going the right way (i.e. if a girl says/acts like this it means your being beta/alpha etc). I'd buy it. I'm looking to improve myself and get what I deserve but so far improving myself has led to next to no benefits. That's a fact. ioi's, butt displays, great. Meaningless. Hairdresser that comes onto you then does a 180? what is that? Because I wasn't showered (I was actually).

So yeah, you can understand (or should) my hesitation to simply believe what you're saying when I am in fact doing much of what you and Shannon suggest yet am getting nowhere. I ask again, what "N" is that?

[Shannon]

Sarge... there is more than one variable in play.

I can "do everything right" and still fail, if my goal is to fail.

So far you're trying to secretly fail, while overtly trying to improve and succeed, so you can eventually say... "See? I did everything and nothing worked. I guess I can just have it my way now."

Until you stop trying to fail you will fail. No matter what, a man who is hell bent on failing will fail, and one who is hell bent on succeeding will succeed.

You have to let go of whatever it is that you are holding on to that is resulting in you failing... nobody can do that for you.

Of course it could be argued that all this is just you succeeding at what you REALLY want to achieve.

People always say what is convenient, and then do what is the truth.

[SargeMaximus]

I disagree Shannon, and frankly I'm tired of being the subject of that. I'm not your scapegoat, nor chaos's, for your inability to explain things that contradict your "wisdom".

All I'm saying is: if what you're saying is true, it should work.

More than that, if what you're saying is true:

Until you stop trying to fail you will fail. No matter what, a man who is hell bent on failing will fail, and one who is hell bent on succeeding will succeed.

So why do I need to have good hygene then? Seems to me, if what you're saying is true, good hygene shouldn't matter either way. I should be able to become a celebrity/rock star by never showering by that logic.

[chaosvrgn]

Sarge, listen to yourself. Listen to what you're arguing. We're not telling you to make huge, drastic changes in your life or mindset. We're only telling you to drop the idea dirty, nasty, unkempt men get laid more. And somehow... you're vigorously defending that idea... based on two random ass "approaches" that could've been nothing more than some women wanting to do their daily good deed for a man who looked homeless.

Does this sound like the argument of a sane, rational person? Or someone who desperately wants to hold on to a belief of scarcity?

You're saying it's "not working," but you're carrying the energy of a person that expects to fail. You're not giving any alternative tactic a fair chance, because the moment it doesn't go the way you want, you retreat back to notions of "hate energy" and "man, I should stop bathing" and crap like that.

You're full of fear, man. Afraid to become alpha. You're afraid that becoming alpha means losing your job. You're afraid that becoming alpha means being physically attacked. You're afraid that becoming alpha means getting used by women.

Here's the reality of the situation: IT DOES. It is NOT easy being alpha. It is NOT easy being at the top. That is the nature of the world. But if you want to be an alpha, if you want to be great, be ready to fight for it, because no one's going to give you their respect, and women aren't going to give you their bodies simply because you demand it.

I'm experiencing this now at the gym. Because I'm surrounded by women and getting the favor of the Coach, I'm constantly being attacked. You have NO idea. People trying to sucker punch me while "light sparring." People talking shit about me, plotting to try and hurt me while fighting. Planning on "jumping me." But I LOVE the feeling I go somewhere and men avert their eyes down when I look at them. And I'll never let that go.

About two weeks ago, I couldn't eat for a day because this little insecure f*ck hit me with a full power left hook while we were going "medium contact." He just hauled off and did it. Turns out, he was mad because I made moves on this little Latina chick -- K. The Coach -- who I thought would take my side -- actually laughed at me for getting hit so hard. Did I cry? Did I whine? Did I give up? No. I proceeded to damn near knock the little fuck out with a right cross. Then the Coach sent in one of his prized students and I sidekicked that b*tch so hard that he coughed out his mouthpiece.

That's the response I give to people trying to stop me from ascending. I train harder. I f*cking excel. I f*cking win, at all costs. Because that's what an alpha male does. What they DON'T do, is use all kinds of ridiculous rationalizations to avoid becoming the man you want to be.

You're not hurting me by being foolish. I'm going to see Wonder Woman in a few hours with an unbelievably fit, attractive woman that's clearly trying to set up a one night stand. I'll be showered, well-groomed and ready to get my d*ck wet. If you want to live that life -- $100k base salary, nice apartment, fine women, I can help you.

Here's your first tip: Under no circumstances will you ever find success in life if you f*cking run around without grooming yourself.

Go to a mirror right now, look at yourself and scream, "does the world know who the F*CK I am?" If you can do that, then you're not ashamed of who you are. If you can't, run DMSI-A until you can.

[Shannon]

I disagree Shannon, and frankly I'm tired of being the subject of that. I'm not your scapegoat, nor chaos's, for your inability to explain things that contradict your "wisdom".

Ah, I touched a nerve. The Nerve 'O Truth. I just did explain it... and I nailed it, too.

All I'm saying is: if what you're saying is true, it should work.

If what I am saying is true, then you still have to decide to succeed before you will succeed.

More than that, if what you're saying is true:

Until you stop trying to fail you will fail. No matter what, a man who is hell bent on failing will fail, and one who is hell bent on succeeding will succeed.

So why do I need to have good hygene then? Seems to me, if what you're saying is true, good hygene shouldn't matter either way. I should be able to become a celebrity/rock star by never showering by that logic.

This has already been explained to you at least three times, Sarge, and once already by me. I won't insult your intelligence by explaining again how hygeine is one of many factors that make it easier to succeed, and is not in itself the only variable in play, or even the primary one. After all, you're a smart guy who wants to succeed with women, right?

[SargeMaximus]

Sarge, listen to yourself. Listen to what you're arguing. We're not telling you to make huge, drastic changes in your life or mindset. We're only telling you to drop the idea dirty, nasty, unkempt men get laid more. And somehow... you're vigorously defending that idea... based on two random ass "approaches" that could've been nothing more than some women wanting to do their daily good deed for a man who looked homeless.

This made me lol, so thank you for that.

It's funny that you have to make it into a "pity approach" to be able to make sense of it.

I thought women didn't do that. But I digress. We're straying from the root of this issue.

Does this sound like the argument of a sane, rational person? Or someone who desperately wants to hold on to a belief of scarcity?

I'm not looking to argue. My response would ignite an argument so I won't respond to this. I'm after truth/what works, not arguments

You're saying it's "not working," but you're carrying the energy of a person that expects to fail. You're not giving any alternative tactic a fair chance, because the moment it doesn't go the way you want, you retreat back to notions of "hate energy" and "man, I should stop bathing" and crap like that.

I'm just wondering if carrying the energy to succeed is all that matters.

You're full of fear, man. Afraid to become alpha. You're afraid that becoming alpha means losing your job. You're afraid that becoming alpha means being physically attacked. You're afraid that becoming alpha means getting used by women.

Yes, I agree.

Here's the reality of the situation: IT DOES. It is NOT easy being alpha. It is NOT easy being at the top. That is the nature of the world. But if you want to be an alpha, if you want to be great, be ready to fight for it, because no one's going to give you their respect, and women aren't going to give you their bodies simply because you demand it.

I doubt this. Based on things I've experienced. But they are all "N=1" I suppose.

I'm experiencing this now at the gym. Because I'm surrounded by women and getting the favor of the Coach, I'm constantly being attacked. You have NO idea. People trying to sucker punch me while "light sparring." People talking shit about me, plotting to try and hurt me while fighting. Planning on "jumping me." But I LOVE the feeling I go somewhere and men avert their eyes down when I look at them. And I'll never let that go.

About two weeks ago, I couldn't eat for a day because this little insecure f*ck hit me with a full power left hook while we were going "medium contact." He just hauled off and did it. Turns out, he was mad because I made moves on this little Latina chick -- K. The Coach -- who I thought would take my side -- actually laughed at me for getting hit so hard. Did I cry? Did I whine? Did I give up? No. I proceeded to damn near knock the little **** out with a right cross. Then the Coach sent in one of his prized students and I sidekicked that b*tch so hard that he coughed out his mouthpiece.

That's the response I give to people trying to stop me from ascending. I train harder. I f*cking excel. I f*cking win, at all costs. Because that's what an alpha male does. What they DON'T do, is use all kinds of ridiculous rationalizations to avoid becoming the man you want to be.

You're not hurting me by being foolish. I'm going to see Wonder Woman in a few hours with an unbelievably fit, attractive woman that's clearly trying to set up a one night stand. I'll be showered, well-groomed and ready to get my d*ck wet. If you want to live that life -- $100k base salary, nice apartment, fine women, I can help you.

Here's your first tip: Under no circumstances will you ever find success in life if you f*cking run around without grooming yourself.

Go to a mirror right now, look at yourself and scream, "does the world know who the F*CK I am?" If you can do that, then you're not ashamed of who you are. If you can't, run DMSI-A until you can.

I AM grooming myself, jesus. How many times do I have to say it? Do you want videos of me taking a shower every day cause I could do that for you. Just say the word. (joking)

And no I can't. I also don't see the point and that is not the man I want to be.

Again, the confusion lies in you telling me I can be the man I want to be but then telling me that such a man would do things I don't want to do.

Semantics/trivialities I hope.

After all, you're a smart guy who wants to succeed with women, right?

Yeah, which is why I'm willing to keep going despite all the lack of results.

I don't think I'm that smart tho, especially since I easily believe stuff with no proof.

[ReeZoX]

Geezus, for the sake of it Sarge. Try out the whole hygiene thing. If it somehow manages to get you better result great, happy for you. Of course, you should drop off DMSI then as well so you know what got you the wanted results.

If it doesn't then would you be able to listen to us more?

[SargeMaximus]

Geezus, for the sake of it Sarge. Try out the whole hygiene thing. If it somehow manages to get you better result great, happy for you. Of course, you should drop off DMSI then as well so you know what got you the wanted results.

If it doesn't then would you be able to listen to us more?

I am willing to listen to you guys (I wouldn't be discussing this at all if I wasn't). I also wouldn't be keeping good hygiene if I wasn't listening and giving it a chance.

I just don't like having my experiences invalidated. chaos knows how that feels. Not good. And it's always for the same reason: so the other guy can keep his beliefs/blueprint of reality in tact.

EDIT: On the up side I think through all this I've discovered a reason why it might not be working for me: because I feel obligated to do it. There's no genuine desire to do it aside from thinking it'll get me better with women.

[chaosvrgn]

And that explains it. You want to be smelly and low-class. Good to know. *Hits ignore button*

[ReeZoX]

Geezus, for the sake of it Sarge. Try out the whole hygiene thing. If it somehow manages to get you better result great, happy for you. Of course, you should drop off DMSI then as well so you know what got you the wanted results.

If it doesn't then would you be able to listen to us more?

I am willing to listen to you guys (I wouldn't be discussing this at all if I wasn't). I also wouldn't be keeping good hygiene if I wasn't listening and giving it a chance.

I just don't like having my experiences invalidated. chaos knows how that feels. Not good. And it's always for the same reason: so the other guy can keep his beliefs/blueprint of reality in tact.

EDIT: On the up side I think through all this I've discovered a reason why it might not be working for me: because I feel obligated to do it. There's no genuine desire to do it aside from thinking it'll get me better with women.

We are "invalidating" your experiences, not for the sake of trying to drag you down. But in order for you to see things for as they are. We all have been dragged into this society with certain beliefs by our upbringing, some are shared and some aren't. When one of us can't seemingly see the world as it is, we are here to help each other with that. That doesn't mean one of us has "all the answers". While Shannon seems damn close to it, I'm certain he still doesn't have the answer to it all. While some of us may want to keep our realities intact, I certainly wouldn't recommend this forum for that, we are all discussing this because we want to help each other. This forum/subs are destroying realities daily. I still haven't comprehended that time is not linear, so if one is silly enough to actually demand that their reality stays intact, don't come on this forum...

The reason there isn't a book which you want that shows every step on the journey is because no journey is the same. My journey may be similar to yours, but it is far from the same. So even if the specific thing that worked for me, it may not be working for you. So do not take it all for a 100% truth/false. The most important thing is that you understand the principles behind it, which usually is the problem for people not getting wanted results, they're seemingly doing "everything" correct. But they have failed to understand the principles behind them all. Because the principles are what usually show the truth behind it all. And this "truth" is what will get you results, not the specific action behind it.
A man pulling a woman's hair can be seen as (positively) dominating her, but it can also be seen as a man assaulting a woman. The specific action remains, but the difference is the intention and the principles behind these actions.

Regarding your question, if one can become a rockstar/celebrity while not showering - Yes you can. But you will not be one for very long.
For many different reasons, people can't stand your smell and that usual stuff. But also because it sends special signals. You're not thinking yourself worthy enough to smell good. You're not thinking of yourself highly enough to take a shower!?
That signal, yourself not being worthy enough is what will send people off. Not necessarily the specific part of not showering. The principle, in this case, is you are taking care of your body, yourself because you feel for it, "Because you're worth it". Not for the sake of getting better results of women, that's just a side effect.

That latest thing you discovered? Hell yeah, that's a reason pretty big one if you ask me.
And with that, ask yourself this question. "If I am doing everything I can in order to gain recognition from women and get laid. How am I not putting them on a pedestal?"