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Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - Dubls - 03-12-2015
This is another post that comes from reading through Shannon's journal.
On page 112 he says:
"I just realized that there is an error in the instructions [for AM6]. In the sections where it specifies maximum decibel for volume, I reversed it. It should read -32 dB instead of -27. Maximum volume should never exceed -30 dB and preferred volume should be -35 to -40 volume if possible."
I purchased AM6 months after it's release and my instructions still specify -27.
What's the definitive answer?
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - GlaizenGold777 - 03-12-2015
The newest information from Shannon is the correct answer.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - CatMan - 03-13-2015
-32db is most current. I shoot for -35db or so to be safe. Also take into account listening position and some speakers can have the volume drop significantly with even a slight change in listening angle.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - Shannon - 03-18-2015
Here is what FrequenSee tells me about the usage patterns I have for myself.
Maximum volume: 12/15 on my phone (Samsung Galaxy S4). This is approximately -23 dB peak volume at the source. Discrepancy from previous answers comes from the fact that I'm reading these on a scale starting at 0 and dropping, instead of rising. This volume is what I usually use on my phone at night, phone either on nightstand or next to me.
Standard volume: 9/15 on my phone. Approximately -27 dB peak volume at the source. This is what I usually use on my phone during the day, phone in arms reach.
Low volume: 7/15 on my phone. Approximately -33 dB peak volume at the source.
Volumes below 7 are useful, but are not as powerful in dealing with resistance.
This is not necessarily an endorsement for the use of these volumes. It's what I use, and I share it for educational purposes only. If you try them and these volumes are too loud, or you experience ringing in your ears, use the standard method for calibration.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - Ricardo - 07-19-2015
(07-18-2015, 08:31 AM)helloworld Wrote:(03-18-2015, 06:18 PM)Shannon Wrote: Here is what FrequenSee tells me about the usage patterns I have for myself.
Maximum volume: 12/15 on my phone (Samsung Galaxy S4). This is approximately -23 dB peak volume at the source. Discrepancy from previous answers comes from the fact that I'm reading these on a scale starting at 0 and dropping, instead of rising. This volume is what I usually use on my phone at night, phone either on nightstand or next to me.
Standard volume: 9/15 on my phone. Approximately -27 dB peak volume at the source. This is what I usually use on my phone during the day, phone in arms reach.
Low volume: 7/15 on my phone. Approximately -33 dB peak volume at the source.
Volumes below 7 are useful, but are not as powerful in dealing with resistance.
This is not necessarily an endorsement for the use of these volumes. It's what I use, and I share it for educational purposes only. If you try them and these volumes are too loud, or you experience ringing in your ears, use the standard method for calibration.
I have to play the silent at between -60 and -70 at the source (laptop) to not be disturbed by the beeping sound. Is my subconscious able to pick up the messages with this volume?
I always play ultrasonic at -30dB in my home or ~-40dB at night by my bed. I don't get any headaches or nausea although I can sometimes feel restless at night.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - AlphaRomeo - 08-06-2015
What does ( -32db) at the source means? If you are playing on laptop,what software are you using to see where the volume is "at the source"?
I see Shannon´s mentioned that VLC player should be fine for playing subs (and yes, my speakers can play ultrasonics)...however, I have no idea where I can see at which level the dB is "at the source". As far as I know, VLC does not display anything about "at the source". It just displays volume from 0% to 125%. I use windows8, and I can see on Speakers Properties the soundcard output/Speakers Levels that I can adjust, from 0% to 100%.
Where/how can I see and adjust the dB level "at the source"? Thanks.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - CatMan - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 02:28 PM)AlphaRomeo Wrote: What does ( -32db) at the source means? If you are playing on laptop,what software are you using to see where the volume is "at the source"?
I see Shannon´s mentioned that VLC player should be fine for playing subs (and yes, my speakers can play ultrasonics)...however, I have no idea where I can see at which level the dB is "at the source". As far as I know, VLC does not display anything about "at the source". It just displays volume from 0% to 125%. I use windows8, and I can see on Speakers Properties the soundcard output/Speakers Levels that I can adjust, from 0% to 100%.
Where/how can I see and adjust the dB level "at the source"? Thanks.
At the source, means you measure from right close up to the speaker. Within an inch or so will suffice. As opposed to measuring where you are listening from. Due to the difference in those, there can be a huge difference in volume and this effectiveness.
The software needed to measure is a phone app called Frequensee. That's how you measure the volume output and calibrate it effectively.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - Shannon - 08-07-2015
At the source means, FrequenSee is measuring the volume of the audio on the same device that is producing it. So if you're not doing that, you want to measure at the speaker.
Quote:I have to play the silent at between -60 and -70 at the source (laptop) to not be disturbed by the beeping sound. Is my subconscious able to pick up the messages with this volume?
Yes, of course distance from speaker to ear factors in on this, since sound falls off in intensity at the square of the distance from the source. In the same room, it will work, I wouldn't use it at that volume more than 10 feet away though.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - AlphaRomeo - 08-10-2015
Thank you CatMan and Shannon.
Installed the app and...oh my, I have been playing it too loud like 9 months...but fortunately not ridiculously too loud. I can´t remember exactly how loud I played it because at some point I lowered the volume but now that I measured it I know it was around -20db back then when loudest...so way too loud. I remember that I calibrated it with ocean waves, but still it has been too loud.
I started to develop not only headache but my ears started to hurt too and recently they were in pain since I upped the volume a bit for coupled days from the lowest point cos I thought I had been calibrating it TOO low.
Now I have calibrated it to frequensee for displaying around -40db and I see for a couple of days how it goes. The difficulty is that it seems that my speakers shoots the sound right up to the sealing direction, and if I move the app even slightly away from the speakers towards my hearing direction it drops to almost nothingness (where as if I pull the app away from speaker to the direction of sealing the volume pretty still drops pretty fast but not nearly as fast).
Will the -40db be enough considering the fact that my speakers directs it totally different direction than where my ears are? Tho,since I do research and work on my laptop pretty much 8hours/day I am most of the time physically very close to speakers.
Having that said, I think that I am quite sensitive to ultrasonic sound and I might need to still lower the volume since even with -40db right now I am feeling slight discomfort in my ears.
On another note, I know it has been discussed somewhere but can´t find the thread...is the ultrasonic more "powerful" than masked sounds? I am listening my subs around 18h-20h/day. Around 10h while sleeping (played from my laptop on the (foot)end of my bed so botch ears gets even volume) and another 8-10h on my laptop while working (ultarasonic). So far I have been listening ocean surfs while sleeping , but recently switched to trickling witch is somewhat more pleasant since the highest peaks are not that loud. Is it ok to switch my masked sleeping track from ocean to trickling, or even switch it to ultrasonic, in the middle of the 6 stage program?
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - CatMan - 08-10-2015
It's okay to switch tracks during a 6 stage or otherwise. It's the same data, just supplied differently.
Measure and compare the difference from your speakers to where you sit and listen and see how much of a drop-off there is. Maybe set it to -30db at the source and then test where you listen and see what Frequensee says. It should be more than fine to get results I wouldn't worry.
That should help you.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - jbdefence - 08-10-2015
(08-10-2015, 09:59 AM)AlphaRomeo Wrote: Thank you CatMan and Shannon.
Installed the app and...oh my, I have been playing it too loud like 9 months...but fortunately not ridiculously too loud. I can´t remember exactly how loud I played it because at some point I lowered the volume but now that I measured it I know it was around -20db back then when loudest...so way too loud. I remember that I calibrated it with ocean waves, but still it has been too loud.
I started to develop not only headache but my ears started to hurt too and recently they were in pain since I upped the volume a bit for coupled days from the lowest point cos I thought I had been calibrating it TOO low.
Now I have calibrated it to frequensee for displaying around -40db and I see for a couple of days how it goes. The difficulty is that it seems that my speakers shoots the sound right up to the sealing direction, and if I move the app even slightly away from the speakers towards my hearing direction it drops to almost nothingness (where as if I pull the app away from speaker to the direction of sealing the volume pretty still drops pretty fast but not nearly as fast).
Will the -40db be enough considering the fact that my speakers directs it totally different direction than where my ears are? Tho,since I do research and work on my laptop pretty much 8hours/day I am most of the time physically very close to speakers.
Having that said, I think that I am quite sensitive to ultrasonic sound and I might need to still lower the volume since even with -40db right now I am feeling slight discomfort in my ears.
On another note, I know it has been discussed somewhere but can´t find the thread...is the ultrasonic more "powerful" than masked sounds? I am listening my subs around 18h-20h/day. Around 10h while sleeping (played from my laptop on the (foot)end of my bed so botch ears gets even volume) and another 8-10h on my laptop while working (ultarasonic). So far I have been listening ocean surfs while sleeping , but recently switched to trickling witch is somewhat more pleasant since the highest peaks are not that loud. Is it ok to switch my masked sleeping track from ocean to trickling, or even switch it to ultrasonic, in the middle of the 6 stage program?
I have the ultra sonic playing next to my bed with both speakers next to each other as the cables wont go far enough to be on either side, at the source it is around -32db at it highest point and at my pillow measured it and it is around -70db to 80-db, I can still hear a slight high pitch noise but i have to realy focus on trying to hear it.
Your ears maybe still sensitive from having it playing to loud before, give it a couple of weeks at this lower volume and it should stop hurting your ears once they have had time to heal a bit.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - cfact - 08-11-2015
@Shannon - you mention use "on your phone". So your phone is used to measure the sound or generate the sound? (or both) If generate, doesn't this mean you are not getting the (desired) stereo effects?
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - Spareness - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:19 AM)coldfact Wrote: @Shannon - you mention use "on your phone". So your phone is used to measure the sound or generate the sound? (or both) If generate, doesn't this mean you are not getting the (desired) stereo effects?
Shannon use his phone to measure the decibel using apps called Frequensee.
RE: Ultrasonic volume - the definitive answer - cfact - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:31 AM)wahyu Wrote: Shannon use his phone to measure the decibel using apps called Frequensee.I assumed as much - but his wording "This volume is what I usually use on my phone at night, phone either on nightstand or next to me." suggests to me that he actually uses his phone as the sound source...