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+--- Thread: Stop using illegal drugs forever! (/Thread-Stop-using-illegal-drugs-forever)
Stop using illegal drugs forever! - alphamach - 12-23-2014
I am thinking of buying this for someone I know, 4 years clean, started taking again a week ago - Heroin
He may be able to stop now, if he doesn't I will buy this.
What kind of results can be expected? I know results probably vary
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - alphamach - 12-23-2014
I brought it just now and its on his phone and he is going to listen tonight, his 1st night.
Fingers crossed
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - in3deep - 12-23-2014
would be recommended to use speakers instead since the mp3s are stereo and mobile phones are mono
or u can connect a earpiece to the mobile phone n listen thru it
wish your friend all the best in kicking the habit
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - alphamach - 12-24-2014
ahh I listened to part of a subliminal on mobile phone
Does that mean it would not work?
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - in3deep - 12-24-2014
(12-24-2014, 03:35 PM)alphamach Wrote: ahh I listened to part of a subliminal on mobile phone
Does that mean it would not work?
think if using the speaker on a phone, theres still benefits, but not as much as you will get using a set of speakers or earphones
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - eternity - 01-24-2015
hey is your friend having a desire in staying clean? I recommend he go to detox if he's been using more than a month, daily use. And then plugging into a support group such as AA. I'm a recovering heroin/meth/coke addict and a recovering alcoholic.
maybe his situation is different than mine, but if it were me, i would be nodding off too hard to remember to use the subs. and even then, who knows if the heroin sleep allows the subs to take effect.
i don't have experience with the stop using illegal drugs sub, but my first and foremost suggestion is to get immediately abstinent from a tried and true method, and then supplement with the subs.
Heroin is no joke. blessings
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - Shannon - 01-28-2015
After extensively studying addiction and alcoholism for an upgrade to that program that has not yet been built, including observing and interviewing active and "recovering" alcoholics and drug users, I can tell you that my conclusion is that almost all forms of drug addiction stem from a desire to escape from something - usually pain and/or fear. I firmly believe that there is no "disease", and there is no "always a drug user/alcoholic". It is possible to overcome an addiction permanently, if you make the choice and do the right things, and many have done it. AA and other 12 step programs have done a huge disservice to addicts by peddling this garbage that they are helpless and have a disease, and many people suffer for it. This, by the way, from someone who has been intimately involved in AA for years on the side of "affected family member". I'm not just talking out my butt here.
To make the choice and do the right things, you need to understand that it's being caused by psychological underpinnings. Why does your friend use? What is he trying to escape from or self medicate? He figures that out, all of it, and he'll be at least half way to ending his dance with drugs. I've seen cases of people figuring that out and then successfully walking away from drugs forever the very same day.
If you use this program on a mobile phone or a mono speaker, it will not be as effective as it could be. You need to use it through a stereo source, and the best such source, especially for something this serious, is going to be stereo earphones or earbuds.
You should not expect this program to be the only thing that is used to help with this issue. It should be used as support. I recommend finding a support system that does not require you to believe you are helpless, or hopeless, as these beliefs are typically what lead people to use, not help them recover. There are alternatives to AA type programs, and they are worth finding. But whatever you do, find some way to get him help, therapy and a support system.
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - alphamach - 02-08-2015
he has been using 2 months now.
That's great to hear Shannon
Great questions to ask him.
He says he wants to stop, at the same time he did say today he does enjoy it.
I am currently trying to help him to cut down by supervising and storing the heroin before he tries a cold turkey.
He doesn't want to go on a substitute, he says you still have to taper down on that too and still feel a little ill when first taken.
He will start going to counseling tho
He is using These speakers
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0035JPRK6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Connected to this mp3 player
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004UYOWMO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - eternity - 02-08-2015
(01-28-2015, 12:48 AM)Shannon Wrote: After extensively studying addiction and alcoholism for an upgrade to that program that has not yet been built, including observing and interviewing active and "recovering" alcoholics and drug users, I can tell you that my conclusion is that almost all forms of drug addiction stem from a desire to escape from something - usually pain and/or fear. I firmly believe that there is no "disease", and there is no "always a drug user/alcoholic". It is possible to overcome an addiction permanently, if you make the choice and do the right things, and many have done it. AA and other 12 step programs have done a huge disservice to addicts by peddling this garbage that they are helpless and have a disease, and many people suffer for it. This, by the way, from someone who has been intimately involved in AA for years on the side of "affected family member". I'm not just talking out my butt here.
To make the choice and do the right things, you need to understand that it's being caused by psychological underpinnings. Why does your friend use? What is he trying to escape from or self medicate? He figures that out, all of it, and he'll be at least half way to ending his dance with drugs. I've seen cases of people figuring that out and then successfully walking away from drugs forever the very same day.
If you use this program on a mobile phone or a mono speaker, it will not be as effective as it could be. You need to use it through a stereo source, and the best such source, especially for something this serious, is going to be stereo earphones or earbuds.
You should not expect this program to be the only thing that is used to help with this issue. It should be used as support. I recommend finding a support system that does not require you to believe you are helpless, or hopeless, as these beliefs are typically what lead people to use, not help them recover. There are alternatives to AA type programs, and they are worth finding. But whatever you do, find some way to get him help, therapy and a support system.
There is a flip side to what you are saying, and that is it's saving millions of peoples live's around the world. In my experience, it's not telling me that I'm hopeless, but rather powerless when it comes to alcohol.
I view the 12 steps as a personal development tool, and it is saving my own life.
Regardless, I do believe rehabs and other institutions in this industry have perpetuated garbage such as the disease concept to fill their own pockets, so I see what you're saying there.
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - Shannon - 02-12-2015
And the flip side to what you are saying is that it is telling you are hopeless. Powerless is hopeless to have power, and without power you cannot make change for yourself.
Let's examine this logically.
You choose to believe that you are "powerless when it comes to alcohol". This choice is based on the experience, no doubt, of repeatedly failing to effectively control your use of the substance in the past, and to painful results.
But, you are not powerless when it comes to alcohol or you would still be not just drinking, but drunk. Therefore, you have made at least one choice concerning alcohol which led to something other than your being drunk and therefore you have the ability to make choices concerning alcohol, as, in fact, we all do.
And since you can make choices concerning alcohol, and some of your choices have been to do something other than drink it when you wanted to, you therefore have power concerning alcohol, because your choices are your ability to control things concerning yourself, and control is power.
Since you have control of yourself concerning alcohol, and you believe you do not, we must conclude that you are choosing to believe something that is not true because of a failure to think rationally and logically. We must also conclude that the source of your belief that you are "powerless when it comes to alcohol" is wrong. You do have power over your choices concerning alcohol.
Given this dichotomy, we must conclude reasonably that you have control but either do not realize it, or do not want to believe it. If you did not realize it, my work is done. Otherwise, we must now seek an explanation for why you believe you are powerless when you are not.
My experience has been that this belief that one is powerless when they are not frequently comes from the desire to escape personal responsibility for the power one possesses to make a choice and change, because that responsibility is uncomfortable. Denial of power is denial of personal ability, which is in itself denial of personal responsibility. When one is not responsible for one's beliefs, choices or actions, one can do things they know at some level are not the right thing to do and have a charade that allows them to "get away with it" and perhaps do it again.
In the case of alcoholism, there is no such disease outside the refusal to take personal responsibility for one's actions because that responsibility requires one to face the root cause of the "alcoholism" and deal with it instead of using alcohol and alcoholism as the excuse they are to hide from personal responsibility. Alcoholism is the disease of the mind that one believes they are powerless concerning alcohol. It has nothing to do with alcohol, or actually being powerless, because nobody is really powerless. If Stephen Hawking can write books on leading edge quantum physics using his eye twitches only... you're not helpless, hopeless or powerless. There is no excuse.
Half of the "disease" of alcohol comes from the need to escape from something: physical, mental, emotional pain, guilt, shame, fear, anger, self loathing, grief, hopelessness without having the maturity, understanding of how to, and desire to find alternate ways of coping. The other half comes from the institutions that teach that you are perpetually hopeless, helpless and diseased.
Alcoholism is a state of being. It is not a definition for a person, or an identity. Alcoholism is a state of being in which a person uses alcohol in excess on a regular basis specifically to self medicate away pain, guilt, shame, fear, self loathing, anger, grief or feelings of depression or hopelessness. That state of being is not perpetual, but perpetuated: at any time, the individual acting in an alcoholic manner can make the choice to do something else. They can decide not to visit that bar. Or, if they go to a bar, they can decide not to order alcohol. Or, if they order alcohol, they can choose not to drink it. And if they drink it, they can choose to exercise restraint.
Instead, a person acting in an alcoholic state chooses to do none of those things. But it is a choice. A series of choices, in fact, which makes it anything but random. As they say, actions speak louder than words; what you say will always be revealed to be true or false by your corresponding actions. By choosing to believe you are powerless, you are choosing to eschew personal power and responsibility concerning alcohol. That means you are actually using AA as an excuse to have the option to go drink and act in an alcoholic manner. And that's just fine with AA, because without relapses, who would need AA?
Drinking alcohol is a choice. You always have the choice, and therefore you always have the power to choose something else. The issue is that you don't know how else to cope with your fear/guilt/shame/self loathing/pain/etc. in a way that is as comfortable as alcohol is, and you don't wish to make the effort to find one, or execute that method. It is just easier to drink alcohol as a coping method than to, say, exercise self control. Or seek out, heal, deal with, overcome and move on from the root cause of your desire to self medicate with alcohol.
My grandfather on my mother's side drank himself to death at around the age of 46. Literally drank so hard that his liver dissolved. His reason for this was that he could not deal with the fact that, even though he had flown not the required 25 missions over Germany in a B17 bomber in WWII, but 50 (!), he could not forgive himself for his brother's death when his brother's tank was hit by a German tank shell. He blamed himself for his brother's death, and this guilt was so painful that he turned to alcohol to escape. Which promptly cost him my grandmother and his daughter and two sons, as my grandmother left him to have the ability to put food in her children's mouths, instead of alcohol in his stomach. He died homeless, penniless, and very young.
All of this was a choice. First he chose to believe that his brother's death was somehow his fault. Then he chose to seek escape instead of trying to deal with his pain and grief. Next, he chose to perpetuate his escape even at the expense of his wife and children. Finally, he chose to die rather than consider that maybe he should ask for help.
All choices he made. Stupid choices, but choices nonetheless.
Nobody is different. We all have the ability to make choices for ourselves. Every move you make, action you take, choice you make, and all the results of what you do, think, say and believe are all in themselves a choice. They all stem from what you believe to be true, and that is also a choice. If it wasn't we wouldn't have a million and one religious denominations out there, with people switching between them to validate and suit their current choice of beliefs.
You have the choice as to what you do and do not to. When you do what you do. Where you do what you do. How you do it. All this is based on your actions, and those are based on your choices, and those are based on your beliefs, which are also based on your choices, because again, we choose what we believe to be true.
An interesting fact: the subconscious mind has no concept of good or bad. It simply does what it believes to be what you want it to do. And what does it believe you want it to do? Whatever it is you have accepted as true, it understands as a set of instructions. "Make this true outwardly." And it goes about doing exactly that. You may not consciously see it, realize it, recognize it, but that is exactly what is happening. Whatever you choose to believe, your subconscious mind supports the external manifestation of by directing your actions and choices accordingly.
So if you believe you are an "alcoholic", guess what your subconscious is working to make true? You being an "alcoholic"! And what does an "alcoholic" do by definition? Drink alcohol in excess and without control, of course! And at every AA meeting, what is the first thing you hear out of everyone's mouth? "Hi, I'm ________, and I'm an alcoholic." Tada! Perfect recipe for a "relapse". In fact the 12 step programs are designed psychologically to perpetuate the problem, not fix it. The best an AA member can hope for is to be stuck being an "alcoholic" for the rest of their lives, and with luck, they find a way to define "recovering alcoholic" in a way that does not include a relapse and then identify strongly enough as a "recovering alcoholic" that they stop drinking. But as a "recovering alcoholic", they must forever go back to AA meetings and be brainwashed again and again into believing they are diseased, hopeless, helpless and powerless. That they are an alcoholic, and there will never be any other reality.
The truth is that what you believe is what you make real, and this can be seen for example in my mother. When I was 11, my mother was literally dragged to her first AA meeting, drunk off her ass. Ironically, she was dragged to this meeting my one of my uncles, who was just as bad off, but who was still fully in denial about his own drinking. From that day forward, she never drank again.
She was a member of AA for five years before she stopped going to meetings, and yet she spent the last 29 years of her life stone cold sober. Why did she stop going? Because she realized that she didn't need AA. She was tired of the politics, the squabbles, the petty manipulations, the brainwashing, the failure based thinking, and the constant reminders of hopeless-helpless-diseased-alcoholic.
One thing I have never failed to see an AA member do is identify as an alcoholic. One thing I never saw her do after she left AA was... identify as an alcoholic.
Overcoming alcoholism means understanding that your reality is the result of your choices. And your choices are the result of your actions. And your actions are the result of YOUR CHOICES... and your choices are the result of your beliefs.
If you choose to believe that it is better to be drunk than to try to find the cause of the pain and fix it, then you will be drunk until the pain magically vanishes. (Not gonna happen.) If you believe that alcoholism is a disease, then you don't have to be responsible for what you do, because you can always blame the disease. "I get a free pass to drink all the time and screw up mine and everyone else's life because I have this official disease, see?" It all boils down to maturity and taking responsibility for yourself. Those who have it, recognize that pain means they need to fix something, so they set about figuring out what to fix, how to fix it, and then fixing it. Those who don't, try to hide, escape, blame someone or something else, and generally claim to be helpless, hopeless and powerless.
AA is a cult of the voluntarily powerless, which is a choice, because they don't know how, or where to find a better solution. Those who do, leave AA. And frequently that better solution is to stop identifying as a diseased, hopeless, helpless alcoholic, suck it up and face life from a position of "I can!" instead.
You are not an "alcoholic". You are a person who finds it easier to be drunk than face the challenges life has given you to overcome, and who does not have the understanding of how to get past those challenges otherwise, or the will to do so. You do not have a disease; you have a lack of understanding of the solution, or perhaps a lack of desire to take the harder-but-better road of fixing the problem. You are not hopeless or helpless unless you choose to believe that you are, and in so doing, make yourself such - which is basically using your power to do nothing.
Not all of growing up has to do with the age of the physical body. Some of it has to do with the age of the mind and emotions. Alcoholism is a problem that affects those who start off without the maturity to do otherwise. That does not mean you do not always have the power and ability to choose another path, one of growth, accepting personal responsibility and fixing the problem instead of trying to deny and hide from it.
The same is true for drug addicts, including cigarette users, whose drug addiction has become so commonplace as to no longer be seen as a drug addiction, and "food addicts" who use food as their drug of choice.
This might interest you to read.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0807033154
You can read an excerpt from it here:
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pseudo_science_of_alcoholics_anonymous_theres_a_better_way_to_treat_addiction/
RE: Stop using illegal drugs forever! - eternity - 02-12-2015
I see what you're saying in a lot of ways, but it seems like we're saying the same thing.
I would like to mention that my statements are not a reflection of AA as a whole, and is of my own opinion.
AA Is a bandaid that we need to apply every day.
Powerless? Yes. Diseased? Maybe. But not hopeless. In fact, every meeting is nothing but experience, strength and hope.
Brainwashed? Maybe it needs washing. As a mind programming expert yourself, you will understand that 10 years of programming myself to put substances in my body has made my brain dirty. It may be a tedious, monotonous, time consuming process, and I may have to do it for the rest of my life, but it's worth it to be happy and to make others happy.
The twelve steps are designed to make one a better person. In fact, the twelve steps only mentions alcohol once. You do not need to be an alcoholic to work the steps. Take, for instance, gamblind and sex addicts. The 12 steps are a recipe to be a good human being; one with principles and morals.
I agree many alcoholics, myself included begin their substance abuse due to a traumatic event, but eventualy, regardless as to whether or not they overcome said event, their brains are chemically and physically changed causing them to "require" the substance of choice, or cause the individual to seek it out. Some people do not require the process of going to aa for the rest of their lives. Take for instance, your mother. After just her first meeting, she never took a drink again, and after 5 years was able to maintain her sobriety on her own. was she not being programmed with aa for those 5 years? If she was being programmed to relapse, she would have.
AA is a bandaid which must be reapplied every so often. for some, the wounds heal quickly and do not require further application. But for others, we must continue to bandage up the damage, day in and day out since the wounds go much deeper.
Believing we have a disease is not a cop out, rather an obstacle we must overcome. Someone who has lung cancer does not use the disease as a cop out to act like a fool. They wouldnt use the cancer as a free pass to smoke like a chimney, with the conviction "i have cancer, i can smoke all i want". We do not believe that being drunk will magically solve our problems and make them disappear. In fact, we realized that the alcohol was itself a bandaid, and would only cause the pain to fade briefly.
We also agree that addicts and alcoholics act the way we do because of a lack of maturity. That is why we seek help through aa. Seeing as you're familiar with the steps, you already know about step four and five, the taking of personal inventory and personal house cleaning which goes along with what you said about identifying the cause and solutions to our ailments.
Indeed we are a cult. In fact, I'm attending a meeting tomorrow, in which you are cordially invited to partake in some non alcoholic punch
As for the can't do it attitude, I'm not convinced. The co founders Bill and Bob were successful stock broker in NYC and a prominent doctor respectively. They set their life purpose on passing on the solution to the suffering alcoholic and have in turn saved millions of lives around the world.
At the end of the day, I offered the AA suggestion to the OP as a form of help for his friend, to at least see immediate results in staying clean. Maybe he won't need it for the rest of his life, but at least it would be a good start.