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+--- Thread: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? (/Thread-SleepPhones-have-a-really-low-high-frequency-output)
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SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-07-2014
I've been listening the masked track at night, but last night I tested the ultrasonic track and I have to raise the volume on my Galaxy S2 to almost full (3 or 4 steps from full volume) in order to hear it. I can always hear the ultrasonics through speakers when calibrated normally. I also tried another set headphones (plugs) and with those I only had to use half the volume or less. I also tested with playing the ultrasonic and putting the SleepPhone speaker right up to mic hole of my phone and got maybe -60 to -50dB at full volume with Frequensee. The other earplugs gave a lot more.
Just posted this as a warning and also to ask are your SleepPhones the same? Even with normal music, or the masked track, its clearly audible that there's not much HF. It should be ok, just feels a bit unsafe playing the US track at full volume every nigth... The masked track is fine, but I'm a bit worried that I sometimes have to turn the track volume so low to be able to sleep that the actual suggestions will be too low in volume (Shannon said they're 40-60 dB if I remember it rigth).
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - JackOfHearts - 07-07-2014
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do or say.
(07-07-2014, 03:06 AM)LionKing Wrote: I've been listening the masked track at night, but last night I tested the ultrasonic track and I have to raise the volume on my Galaxy S2 to almost full (3 or 4 steps from full volume) in order to hear it.
Are you trying to hear the ultrasonic track?
if that's the case, you should not do that. You are not supposed to hear it. Unless you are in a special case: you have a special hearing, your speaker/headphone/device don't support the high frequencies.
(07-07-2014, 03:06 AM)LionKing Wrote: The masked track is fine, but I'm a bit worried that I sometimes have to turn the track volume so low to be able to sleep that the actual suggestions will be too low in volume (Shannon said they're 40-60 dB if I remember it rigth).I think it was a suggestion for the ultrasonic, he never talked about this with the masked (at least I never read this one). The masked should be what you think is the normal listening volume (safe one) for you.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 08:49 AM)maniac360 Wrote: Are you trying to hear the ultrasonic track?
if that's the case, you should not do that. You are not supposed to hear it.
I can hear it just fine when its calibrated with the Ocean track and played through speakers or headphones with an adequately linear frequency response. Especially if I close my eyes and click pause/play, its easy to tell when its playing and when its not. But its just a high 'beep', I can't make any sense of it. The point is that the response of SleepPhones seems to roll off sharply at the high end, requiring a very high volume setting to reach normal levels.
(07-07-2014, 08:49 AM)maniac360 Wrote: I think it was a suggestion for the ultrasonic, he never talked about this with the masked (at least I never read this one). The masked should be what you think is the normal listening volume (safe one) for you.It was about the masked track, because he was talking about the volume difference between the masking track and the suggestion track. Can't find it now, though. And yes normal volume..... but at night, the level that's comfortable for me *and allows me to sleep* can be MUCH lower than what's comfortable for me during the day. Depends on the night, I'll keep it as high as I can that night. That's why I was experimenting with the ultrasonic track: its less disturbing to sleep with so I can keep the volume at normal levels, and the subliminal track volume is the same as the track volume, not 40 to 60dB below it.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - adam225 - 07-08-2014
It's because of where you're positioning the mic against the sleepphones. Try moving it around until you hit the highest point. I'd normally have mine set at -50db over night and I'd still have LOADS of volume left.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-08-2014
(07-08-2014, 10:59 PM)adam225 Wrote: It's because of where you're positioning the mic against the sleepphones. Try moving it around until you hit the highest point. I'd normally have mine set at -50db over night and I'd still have LOADS of volume left.
No, I did that. I know where the mic hole is and I moved the speaker around to where the level was highest. The masked track produces good dB readings, but the US track is much lower. I compared with another set of headphones (plug types) and those were fine (US level about matched the masked track level).
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - adam225 - 07-09-2014
That's very strange. I'd send them back personally and get them exchanged for another set. Mine aren't like that, that's for sure ! Are they wired or wireless ? Mine are wired.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - adam225 - 07-09-2014
BTW, what volume (in db) do you listen to the masked tracks (with headphones) ?
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-09-2014
Ok, interesting.. They're wired, I just got the braided fabric wire. And I measured with the speakers still inside the headband, i.e. I didn't take them out first. I'll check the dB readings tonigth.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-10-2014
So, I did some measurements again. These are made with a Samsung S2 and with the speaker near the mic hole in a position that produces the greatest levels. The levels I list are peak levels. For comparison, I also did the measurements with my average-quality Sony in-ear plugs.
While I sleep, I listen to the Trickling stream track with the level peaks at around -60dB. At that volume:
-Sony in-ears: a -60dB peak @ 5kHz and a lower one @ 2kHz.
-SleepPhones: a wide -60dB peak @ 500-1500Hz. Complete silence @ 5kHz.
The ultrasonic track at that same volume setting:
-Sony in-ears: a sharp -60dB peak @ 18kHz.
-SleepPhones: absolutely nothing (no change to background noise)
When I set my phone to full volume, both speakers produce around -40 to -35dB with the masked track, with similar frequency profiles as above. Full volume with the ultrasonic track produces:
-Sony in-ears: -35dB
-SleepPhones: -55dB
Now I find the masked track frequence profiles unsettling, because I don't know where the suggestions lie?? Typical male speech seems to be recorded below 4kHz... Shannon is using a speech synthesizer, so that probably produces a narrower freq. band?
I had this feeling that its probably somehow easier for my brain to interpret the masked tracks than US tracks, but now it seems that I should go with the US track purely because its something I can easily measure with Frequencee. Too much uncertainty with the masked tracks unless I know what frequencies are important. I'd be so nice if there was an instant way to test whether the messages get through or not, like the sleep aid or something that makes me speak in tongues or whatever. Now it can take months.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - Raz - 06-30-2015
Hey LionKing, hey Adam.
How has your use of the ultrasonics and sleepphones turned out? I just gave them a shot the last night and have the same concerns as LionKing back a year ago: With ordinary earphones, headphones and speakers I am easily able to hear the high pitch of the ultrasonic, but with with my sleepphones I have to turn the volume way up to be able to hear it.
How is your experience since the last year? Do ultrasonics work with sleepphones or are the high frequencies toned down, rendering the silent tracks useless when used in combination the sleepphones?
Cheerio.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-01-2015
Hey Raz.
Actually I just revisited this issue. I have been using the sleepphones with the trickling stream track since I last posted. The volume I use is 4/15 on a samsung galaxy S2 which I use as an mp3 player now. Its not a high volume, but if I raise it to 5/15 I'll start having trouble falling asleep.
I was thinking that the volume of the suggestions is probably too low like this, so maybe two weeks ago I switched to the ultrasonic track at a volume of 12/15. Sounds high, but both frequensee and my ears tell me that is fine for the ultrasonic track's freq. range. If I did that with any other headphones my head would probably explode. During the day I listen to the US on other headphones and use a volume somewhere between 1/3 and 1/5, usually totaling to 14-16 hours/day.
I think I have finally started seeing some external results since this switch, but that could also be because I'm a little over halfway into stage 4 of AM6 and so AoS -like effects appearing now are actually right on schedule. I have been remembering some interesting dreams now, whereas in the preceding months I didn't. But I also started doing a little tapping again to clear my head at the same time, so it could be due to that as well.
Do post if you notice something :)
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - Raz - 07-01-2015
Sounds good. Thanks for your reply LionKing.
I'll keep going with the ultrasonics then. Will keep an eye on the issue.
Cheers.
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - CatMan - 07-01-2015
I use Sleephones Wireless every night.
Frequensee has them at -40db for the ultrasonic. Great volume for me! Maskeds come in loud and clear too.
I don't like that the tapping has resumed...I thought that was quashed long ago. That was the entire reason for redoing AM6 (and probably SM3) fresh with no tapping to begin with...remember the "too many cooks in the kitchen" analogy I gave. I wouldn't mention that if I didn't care about your results. Don't take it as an attack or whatever.
Anyway, I just wanted to report on this Sleephones thing mainly. They're invaluable!
RE: SleepPhones have a really low high-frequency output? - LionKing - 07-02-2015
(07-01-2015, 05:30 PM)CatMan Wrote: I don't like that the tapping has resumed...I thought that was quashed long ago.
Yes, I mentioned using it a bit again, but you seem to referring to some overall trend on the forum and I am not responsible for, or endorsing, any such actions by, or to, other individuals or groups of individuals. I tend to get stressed very easily by work or basically anything (loving Pao Ko's journal btw). A few weeks ago I noticed that a bit of tapping is more effective than meditation at cleaning my head a bit e.g. after work so I can function again. Kind of... like if my face was covered in spiderweb and I'd get that shit of with water. Or restarting a computer that's overheating. I just mentioned it for full disclosure so that Raz can decide if its relevant for him or not. I've done AM6 up to halfway of stage 4 now twice without a single tap and I'll keep it minor. Yesterday I listened for 20+ hours and tapped for 10-15 minutes. All is well, live & let live.
Anyway, maybe my phone shows lower dB values than others seem to get.. if I whistle and keep the phone in my hand I'll get something like -50 to -40dB on a "normal" whistle, depending on the pitch. Talking sets the peaks at about -50dB. Do you something like that too? -40dB for earphones would be very loud me and my ears would surely ring for a long time. I play US somewhere closer to -60 (I have to check).