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Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 10-31-2012
I'm wondering what the best next step to take is after AM5.
My two major issues with women is fear of rejection, and therefore not initiatiating, approaching, or taking direct action to meet women. And the other is not moving things forward and getting physical or sexual with a woman. I don't feel it as fear, I feel it as avoidance. I just don't take opportunities to kiss a girl, get physical with a girl, bring a girl home, even when they are putting the opportunity right in my lap.
I just seem to automatically do everything in my power to ruin it without realizing that's what I'm doing, unit after the fact when I just sit there wondering wtf just happened.
For example, tonight some woman approached me at a party and after a conversation she came up with an excuse for us to go downstairs and be alone and I didn't put two and two together to realize what she was doing until it was too late.
I told her no to going downstairs. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with this girl whatsoever.
Thats happened to me a zillion times and its getting a bit frustrating at this point. It's just automatic for me to do this and I need to get it handled.
That's why in previous posts I stated that I didn't think that not caring whether a woman is interested is pretty much useless. It might be attractive but it gets you no where in reality. Because I act like that all the time anyway and it does nothing but serve to very succinctly, quickly, and successfully bring to no where land.
AM 5 hasn't helped me with the above two things at all, albeit its helped with a couple other things unrelated to women.
Can anyone who has had the same issues I mention above recommend the next sub or combination of subs that might help attack this in a very aggressive and specific way?
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - Tiesto - 10-31-2012
Why not try SM 2.0 or WM 2.0?
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 10-31-2012
My concern with WM is that it is more of a fun vibe type of program. I'm already kind of a fun guy now so I'm afraid it would just speak to my existing strengths rather than pinpoint my weaknesses.
Of course, I don't know what the subs on the WM program really are, but that's what it seems like from what people describe and how Shannon describes it.
I think I need something a little more specific and aggressive. I'm thinking SM might be better but I figured I'd throw out the question to the board in case anyone has had the same struggles and has overcome it with a specific approach.
The walls I'm hitting are definitely subconscious and must be belief related because they happen automatically with no conscious thought.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - RainbowAbyss - 11-01-2012
you might just not be as viscerally attracted to these woman who like you.
Number one I'd say be aware of your attraction to her if you want to escalate, that's why SM helped so much, my experience of woman became incredibly compelling. You could be the most attractive man on the planet, who can lead anyone, but if you don't viscerally want to get physical with her, then you'll find a way not to.
SM helped a quite a bit with following woman's blatant invitations, especially at certain stages, but the only thing that made
it really natural for me for less obvious situations, was assuming the best and being willing to follow through sexually at every opportunities I was interested, time by time, by just relaxing and realizing that the woman wanted to have sex.
When I became aware I was doing something very similar to you, especially after my first run through Alpha, and then just realized I often ended up regretting it so made the decision and set an intention to act differently in those situations.
Also the more I initiated escalation the easier it was to follow a woman's invitation as well.
That said the sub Winners mindset had me pulling the trigger very confidently.
I would definitely recommend, if your not already, staying very present and aware with you physical
sensations, in general of course, but especially with beautiful woman you are attracted to, attraction is a felt thing and the more polarized you feel towards her physically, the more you'll be inclined to follow your instincts that will lead to escalation.
Lastly one thing I had to confront with why I let opportunities slip through my hands was why I was avoiding/sabatoging/declining i.e. some examples:
fear of losing power
want to end on a good note
mentally like the idea of getting physical but not physically in touch with your drive or desire
not actually comfortable getting intimate so quickly even though mentally its what one wants to do
lazy
and whatever sub you do to speed things up you can always write 'pull the trigger' on your hand or forearm if your bold. I find it makes things more fun as well.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 11-01-2012
(11-01-2012, 12:33 AM)RainbowAbyss Wrote: you might just not be as viscerally attracted to these woman who like you.
Number one I'd say be aware of your attraction to her if you want to escalate, that's why SM helped so much, my experience of woman became incredibly compelling. You could be the most attractive man on the planet, who can lead anyone, but if you don't viscerally want to get physical with her, then you'll find a way not to.
SM helped a quite a bit with following woman's blatant invitations, especially at certain stages, but the only thing that made
it really natural for me for less obvious situations, was assuming the best and being willing to follow through sexually at every opportunities I was interested, time by time, by just relaxing and realizing that the woman wanted to have sex.
When I became aware I was doing something very similar to you, especially after my first run through Alpha, and then just realized I often ended up regretting it so made the decision and set an intention to act differently in those situations.
Also the more I initiated escalation the easier it was to follow a woman's invitation as well.
That said the sub Winners mindset had me pulling the trigger very confidently.
I would definitely recommend, if your not already, staying very present and aware with you physical
sensations, in general of course, but especially with beautiful woman you are attracted to, attraction is a felt thing and the more polarized you feel towards her physically, the more you'll be inclined to follow your instincts that will lead to escalation.
Lastly one thing I had to confront with why I let opportunities slip through my hands was why I was avoiding/sabatoging/declining i.e. some examples:
fear of losing power
want to end on a good note
mentally like the idea of getting physical but not physically in touch with your drive or desire
not actually comfortable getting intimate so quickly even though mentally its what one wants to do
lazy
and whatever sub you do to speed things up you can always write 'pull the trigger' on your hand or forearm if your bold. I find it makes things more fun as well.
I definitely find the women attractive, so I don't think it's that. The woman could be a playboy playmate and I would reject her, because it's just this automatic thing that is avoiding...... Well something - that's the thing, I don't know what I'm avoiding. It's so automatic. I actually think the problem IS that I find her attractive. That's actually what triggers the auto-avoid.
But I think you hit it on the mark with the rest of what you said. Sounds like you went through something similar from you are describing. And yea the list of things you used as reasons not to pull the trigger sound familiar to me as well. It's almost like I'm deathly afraid of being polarizing and moving things along one way or the other.
You literally wrote pull the trigger on your arm? So people could see it - or more so you would know its there?
To be honest! I think I need to become a manwhore for a while just to find some sort of middle ground, because I'm so far from that now its ridiculous. And this seems like such a hard nut to crack.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - rayrocanaldo - 11-01-2012
Funkey, I know how those habits can br very frustrating. It's like you wan to do something and you own mind is working against you. It's a hell of a frustrating experience.
I personally suggest you try the self-sabotge sub or the fear sub.
There's a good possibility you've been doing this all your life and it's probably due to some fear you had when you first started it. So my suggestion is self-sabotage or overcome fear. My suggestion may or may not help but always try to it heart the of problem. That's what I try to do.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 11-01-2012
Thanks for the suggestion
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - Sean - 11-01-2012
After what you read, I'd have to concur with Overcoming Fear. Give that a try and I bet your avoidance will melt away.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - AVB2011 - 11-02-2012
(11-01-2012, 12:51 AM)FunkeyMonkey Wrote: I definitely find the women attractive, so I don't think it's that. The woman could be a playboy playmate and I would reject her, because it's just this automatic thing that is avoiding...... Well something - that's the thing, I don't know what I'm avoiding. It's so automatic. I actually think the problem IS that I find her attractive. That's actually what triggers the auto-avoid.
I think you already know what your problem which is fear of rejection like you mentioned above, therefore you are not initiatiating, approaching, or taking direct action to meet women. That is explaining why you avoiding her.
I think I have the same problem as well, I have fear of rejection so I always try to find ways to protect myself being hurt or avoid something that will hurt my self esteem.
I just guessing that the subconscious were trying to protect you so as a result you will avoid situation that you think it will hurt you or your esteem (rejection).
Maybe master Shannon
has better explanation and solution about about this.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 11-02-2012
(11-02-2012, 01:01 AM)AVB2011 Wrote:(11-01-2012, 12:51 AM)FunkeyMonkey Wrote: I definitely find the women attractive, so I don't think it's that. The woman could be a playboy playmate and I would reject her, because it's just this automatic thing that is avoiding...... Well something - that's the thing, I don't know what I'm avoiding. It's so automatic. I actually think the problem IS that I find her attractive. That's actually what triggers the auto-avoid.
I think you already know what your problem which is fear of rejection like you mentioned above, therefore you are not initiatiating, approaching, or taking direct action to meet women. That is explaining why you avoiding her.
I think I have the same problem as well, I have fear of rejection so I always try to find ways to protect myself being hurt or avoid something that will hurt my self esteem.
I just guessing that the subconscious were trying to protect you so as a result you will avoid situation that you think it will hurt you or your esteem (rejection).
Maybe master Shannon
I did a little research on this in the last few days because it's really bugging me, how seemingly automatic it is. I found this guy named Morty Lefkoe. He created something called The Lefkoe Method. It is supposed to eliminate destructive beliefs.
Whether the method really works I can't comment on because I don't know enough about it.
But what is interesting, is that he says after having seen hundreds of clients there is a group of core beliefs that come up over and over again and he thinks the majority of people pick these up from their parents as young children. Then it sort of splits off and the beliefs can vary person to person based on life experience etc.
These core beliefs are:
1 Mistakes and failure are bad.
2 I'm not good enough. *
3 Change is difficult.
4 I'm not important. *
5 What makes me good enough or important is having people think well of me. *
6 Nothing I do is good enough.
7 I'm not capable.
8 I'm not competent.
9 I'm inadequate.
10 If I make a mistake or fail I'll be rejected. *
11 I'm a failure.
12 I'm stupid.
13 I'm not worthy.
14 I'll never get what I want.
15 I'm powerless.
16 People aren't interested in what I have to say.
17 What I have to say isn't important.
18 It's dangerous to have people put their attention on me (something bad will happen).
19 What makes me good enough or important is doing things perfectly.
And what's even more interesting is he says the fear of rejection is actually made up of 4 smaller beliefs and 3 conditioned responses that we pick up from our parents as children.
These beliefs are:
- I'm not good enough.
- I’m not important.
- What makes me good enough or important is having people think well of me. *
- If I make a mistake or fail I'll be rejected. *
Conditioning: Fear associated with criticism and judgment.
Conditioning: Fear associated with not meeting expectations.
Conditioning: Fear associated with rejection.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - rayrocanaldo - 11-02-2012
It's all fear. Those are all ramifications that flow from fear.
What about love or confidence did you check what flows from these ?
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 11-02-2012
I'm not sure I would lump everything under fear. I think there are logical, yet faulty, ways that the human brain conceptualizes things in the attempt to understand reality and, as a result, we sometimes believe things that are not true.
I would think love and confidence flow naturally from a human being, assuming one doesn't get in his own way.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - RainbowAbyss - 11-02-2012
I totally forgot about OF
I have not used overcome fear
but from the sound of it I totally agree with that choice.
Yes I wrote pull the trigger on my arm. Sometimes very large across my forearm.
A girl saw it written small on my hand and I showed it to her and she asked what that meant,
and I said 'this' and kissed her. From then on I started writing it big. Most of the time no
one noticed and if they did and asked why, I would sometimes just say 'cause I like it' or 'wouldn't you like to know' or anything retarded..if your comfortable with it, it doesn't matter, and what matter was I was doing it to remind myself as the only reason. This was in night life only btw.
I agree for some reason confidence subs or sub related sets don't really directly deal with relational 'fears' and escalation fears. In my opinion that's because confidence doesn't necessarily effect comfort with sexual expression-fear around being sexual expressive with oneself is a big block to escalation.
In my experience confidence subs make me 'revin' to go and act and do, they actually make it a little trickier to relax in the moment or just be with someone without blasting their head off.
RE: Best Next Path to Take after AM5 - FunkeyMonkey - 11-03-2012
I like that man, that takes balls and it's tenacious.