• We're both doing fine in general.
  
• My weight has stabilized at 5 lbs lower than what it had been for months before the sub. My wife's weight dropped a few pounds, then after a couple weeks it went back to her previous 'normal'. I'm trying to get the muscle weight back that I have lost and it seems to be going ok, though slowly (normal for someone my age).
  
• In general, our sleep has been better, though that is difficult to quantify. Just more consistent deep and rem sleep for both of us.
  
• in the last week have had a couple of 'morning glories' but not extremely pronounced, yet, I hope.... would like to get back to where I was on this when I was younger and/or when I was on TRT.
  
• Tomorrow I'm getting my hormone panels done, seems like a month in to this will be a good time to give it a try. 
  
• I have had bouts of 'crankiness' where I feel the estrogen dominance and really have to catch myself to avoid becoming over-reactive and/or complainy. This has been on and off for several weeks now, BUT seems to be a little less frequent. Night sweats are slightly diminished, though this is hard to tell during the heatwave we have had for the last 10 days or so.
  

• prolactin
  
• Free and total T
  
• DHEA
  
• Estradiol
  
• FSH/LH
  
• GH (hopefully)
  

(09-06-2022, 07:49 PM)rono Wrote: Hi All, (9/6/22)

In the middle of our third cycle since beginning to listen on the cell phone.
Don't like doing it that way, cause it's a pain to hook up the cell phone on my night stand, put it in airplane mode, etc. but seems to be working ok.

Some things to report:

• We're both doing fine in general.
  
• My weight has stabilized at 5 lbs lower than what it had been for months before the sub. My wife's weight dropped a few pounds, then after a couple weeks it went back to her previous 'normal'. I'm trying to get the muscle weight back that I have lost and it seems to be going ok, though slowly (normal for someone my age).
  
• In general, our sleep has been better, though that is difficult to quantify. Just more consistent deep and rem sleep for both of us.
  
• in the last week have had a couple of 'morning glories' but not extremely pronounced, yet, I hope.... would like to get back to where I was on this when I was younger and/or when I was on TRT.
  
• Tomorrow I'm getting my hormone panels done, seems like a month in to this will be a good time to give it a try. 
  
• I have had bouts of 'crankiness' where I feel the estrogen dominance and really have to catch myself to avoid becoming over-reactive and/or complainy. This has been on and off for several weeks now, BUT seems to be a little less frequent. Night sweats are slightly diminished, though this is hard to tell during the heatwave we have had for the last 10 days or so.
  

That's all I can think of right now.

Question for @Shannon: I'm getting hormone labs done. They are going to be pretty thorough. Among the tests requested:

• prolactin
  
• Free and total T
  
• DHEA
  
• Estradiol
  
• FSH/LH
  
• GH (hopefully)
  

What feedback do you have on this? I assume you're interested in the results, what do you expect to see?
Also, how long till the HOY effects peak, more or less?

Cheers!
RonO

(09-09-2022, 11:17 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(09-06-2022, 07:49 PM)rono Wrote: Hi All, (9/6/22)

In the middle of our third cycle since beginning to listen on the cell phone.
Don't like doing it that way, cause it's a pain to hook up the cell phone on my night stand, put it in airplane mode, etc. but seems to be working ok.

Some things to report:

• We're both doing fine in general.
  
• My weight has stabilized at 5 lbs lower than what it had been for months before the sub. My wife's weight dropped a few pounds, then after a couple weeks it went back to her previous 'normal'. I'm trying to get the muscle weight back that I have lost and it seems to be going ok, though slowly (normal for someone my age).
  
• In general, our sleep has been better, though that is difficult to quantify. Just more consistent deep and rem sleep for both of us.
  
• in the last week have had a couple of 'morning glories' but not extremely pronounced, yet, I hope.... would like to get back to where I was on this when I was younger and/or when I was on TRT.
  
• Tomorrow I'm getting my hormone panels done, seems like a month in to this will be a good time to give it a try. 
  
• I have had bouts of 'crankiness' where I feel the estrogen dominance and really have to catch myself to avoid becoming over-reactive and/or complainy. This has been on and off for several weeks now, BUT seems to be a little less frequent. Night sweats are slightly diminished, though this is hard to tell during the heatwave we have had for the last 10 days or so.
  

That's all I can think of right now.

Question for @Shannon: I'm getting hormone labs done. They are going to be pretty thorough. Among the tests requested:

• prolactin
  
• Free and total T
  
• DHEA
  
• Estradiol
  
• FSH/LH
  
• GH (hopefully)
  

What feedback do you have on this? I assume you're interested in the results, what do you expect to see?
Also, how long till the HOY effects peak, more or less?

Cheers!
RonO

I would like to know how your current results compare to previous results on HRT and without HRT.  I really have no expectations because each person is going to be different, but I would presume your hormone levels should be closer to what they were when you were significantly younger.

Peak should be between 2 weeks and 3 months, but I don't know specifically how long it takes because again, each person is different.

(09-14-2022, 05:37 PM)RTBoss Wrote: With a background in exercise science and physiology (by no means an MD), I can only surmise that HRT/TRT shut down your natural production of testosterone (which decreases with age after 30 for men).  Stopping HRT leaves your HPTA in the dirt, and using instructions to start it back up would, I'd think, take more time than someone who never used HRT.

This may or may not be the case, but it's a possible scenario.

(09-14-2022, 06:00 PM)rono Wrote:

(09-14-2022, 05:37 PM)RTBoss Wrote: With a background in exercise science and physiology (by no means an MD), I can only surmise that HRT/TRT shut down your natural production of testosterone (which decreases with age after 30 for men).  Stopping HRT leaves your HPTA in the dirt, and using instructions to start it back up would, I'd think, take more time than someone who never used HRT.

This may or may not be the case, but it's a possible scenario.

Of course, that is a possibility. I am asking Shannon to see if he thinks that's it or if it is something else or if there is a tweak we can toss in there...

Thanks,
RonO

• Testosterone, Free -- 141.7, now 30.9 pg/ml (below normal range) -- this is the most important one
  
• Testosterone, Total -- 1121, now 449 ng/dl (from high to low normal) -- this one is also key
  
• DHT -- 279 ng/dL, now 65 ng/dL (this is the most masculinizing form of T)
  
• Estradiol -- dropped substantially, but that is to be expected since there is so little T to aromatize)
  
• SHBG -- 61 now 68 nmol/L (when this is high, and mine tends to run high, it keeps the T out of play)
  
• FSH -- 1.3, now 2.7 (this is a small improvement, but I'm still in low range)
  
• LH -- appears to be up a little (I have noticed that my testicles are no longer shrinking, so that's good)
  
• Prolactin -- unchanged
  
• Total cholesterol went up, but triglycerides went down, cholesterol ratio dropped
  
• Thyroid hormones -- approximately the same, though T3 dropped noticeably
  

• My hair is definitely thinning, I'm not vain, but it's becoming a problem because even a tiny bit of sweat messes it up now, so I don't look as 'clean cut' as before, more 'bed head' much of the time.
  
• Fewer night sweats.
  
• My balls had begun to shrink after the first couple of weeks, but changing the protocol per Shannon seems to have improved that. I think it was the reduced break periods, though, because that is when they began to respond.
  
• Feeling more fatigued and less motivated to exercise than earlier in the sub use (for the last two weeks)
  
• Muscles have measurably shrunk since going on the sub, I've lost weight (about 6 lbs) but NOT belly fat which has remained consistent.
  
• My diet is essentially unchanged, I've been trying to prioritize sleep because of the fatigue, my exercise program has been consistent for at least the last 2 months.
  
• I get more cranky, easily offended, anxious, etc. but at the same time I am doing a little better at managing these-- though the latter could be attributed to changes in my spiritual disciplines.
  
• Libido-wise-- this is the most frustrating. I used to be interested in sex at all times and often ready to go. Now, when date night is coming up, I have to psych myself up, make sure I'm relaxed, etc. AND I depend on my wife to do her magic to get me interested. Frankly, I've gone from loving to see her naked as often as possible to basically being indifferent, though I don't tell her that, I just act interested though I'm not feeling the interest really.
  
• My mental clarity and motivation surged for a while but have dropped back down but not as low as they had been. Maybe the sub is better at manipulating neurotransmitters than hormones?
  
• I had hoped to see at least a reasonable level of Free T... but no such luck, I'm back to my pre-TRT levels (12/2016 I was at 462 and last week I was at 449-- essentially the same)
  
  
  

(09-16-2022, 09:48 AM)Shannon Wrote: I answered your questions mostly in the post above that last one you made. I guess you did not see it.

A boost and then a drop suggests that the program was being executed for a time, and then that stopped.

Not doing exactly the volume I suggest, even by accident, can have negative impacts.

At this point, we have the possibility that HRT damages the body's ability to produce hormones, at least for a time; or, some part of you is not cooperating to execute fully, which is suggested by a boost and then drop; or, you're not using the right settings.  Could be several things, really.

Let's use the same settings you're currently using, with a change in volume to 6 out of 16 on your cell phone.

You may be confused where I say above that 5.9G seems to be so powerful that we have to lower the volume, especially given these results.  The reason for that is that the more powerful the programs get, the easier it is to overshoot the mark for settings.  Volume plays a big part in that, and it is also largely responsible for what parts and levels of the subconscious we are communicating most directly with.  As the programs increase in power, we have to approach more and more gently to achieve the desired result, or maybe we need to communicate with different levels.  Whatever the case, switch to 6 out of 16 and run it for another month, month and a half to see how it compares.  From the experiments I have been doing with 5.9G I believe this will have a significant impact on achieving the goals better.