(08-17-2016, 08:29 AM)Gotcha Wrote: Why does it seem that many modern men around the globe are not very successful at reading the sexual cues of the modern woman?

Has there been a disconnect sometime in our recent past? Looking at males of other species, they don't seem to be having the same problems with their reproductive language. Or maybe they do? I don't claim to know, this is just a thought...

Assuming that modern man has "lost" (or perhaps replaced/overwritten) the raw ability to consciously read such signals, with all the false information of today imprinted; could that "old" data not still be stored somewhere in the subconscious archives?

I'm guessing that there already in 2.x is phrasing towards OE coaxing the subconscious to gather information on how to read body language, feeding said information to the conscious mind, attempting to make the user act upon it. What if it isn't clear to the subconscious what code key to use in decoding the body language of a sexually attracted female? If the "new" key is slightly corrupted, maybe it's possible to reset to the "old" backup and have better result? Or would it be possible to have the subconscious do a "search" through the users (if applicable) "hookup archives" and and find similarities in the body languages of the females the user had positive outcomes with?

Not a claim, just some thoughts or if you will, an idea.

(08-17-2016, 10:24 AM)CatMan Wrote: Probably a combination of chronic long term rejection, fear of more of it, a resulting belief that you aren't attractive and it's impossible due to the rejections and won't get the women you want. A large overvaluing of women, a large undervaluing of men further complicates this. And decades of rampant feminazism demonising and shaming any kind of male sexual interest making us endlessly self-censor and feel boxed in while watching "alpha douchebags" do the opposite of what is a "real man" according to feminists, and get massive results with women. Quite a noxious soup there. I think you shut down all those instincts about women and stop trying to interpret possible subtle signs of attraction in a positive light and just discount them because they don't match the long term, and far more charged, past failures. After awhile you just think it will never happen and you'll never have success with women. Never knowing WHY exactly this is happening.

All of my friends, have settled down with very unattractive girls, for the same reason. They gave up and out of desperation they went for "a girl that I will always be much more attractive than so I have the power finally and she won't cheat on me and leave me". Nice mind set there, huh? I'm the last one left, the last one unmarried or in a relationship of any sort. But I refuse to surrender like that to a woman I KNOW should be below me in real normally functioning SMV, after what I've accomplished. So I'm single and always have been. My only other theory is the gold digger thing may need reframing, but they are so obvious to detect I can't help but think many times it's right on the money (aha, pun!) so this one is tougher to figure out. Maybe I'm so used to it now, and due to the long term rejections and beliefs about girls being impossible to get BEFORE I became successful, I equate girls "showing interest" as a gold digger or I outright think it isn't possible for her to actually like me and I must be wishful thinking or something from her must be misinterpreted, and shut it down.

I don't know if it's an issue of Goal #2 needing to be far more potent, or if it's a case of needing to see real life results in order to realise change is possible with women and can happen. I'm not sure which, or if it's both. I'm currently of the opinion that talk is cheap and "IOIs" can be easily misinterpreted because you want to see progress. And that real life results are all that matters, and I feel real life results can't be argued against, even with a negative past.

(08-17-2016, 12:03 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote:

(08-17-2016, 10:24 AM)CatMan Wrote: Probably a combination of chronic long term rejection, fear of more of it, a resulting belief that you aren't attractive and it's impossible due to the rejections and won't get the women you want. A large overvaluing of women, a large undervaluing of men further complicates this. And decades of rampant feminazism demonising and shaming any kind of male sexual interest making us endlessly self-censor and feel boxed in while watching "alpha douchebags" do the opposite of what is a "real man" according to feminists, and get massive results with women. Quite a noxious soup there. I think you shut down all those instincts about women and stop trying to interpret possible subtle signs of attraction in a positive light and just discount them because they don't match the long term, and far more charged, past failures. After awhile you just think it will never happen and you'll never have success with women. Never knowing WHY exactly this is happening.

All of my friends, have settled down with very unattractive girls, for the same reason. They gave up and out of desperation they went for "a girl that I will always be much more attractive than so I have the power finally and she won't cheat on me and leave me". Nice mind set there, huh? I'm the last one left, the last one unmarried or in a relationship of any sort. But I refuse to surrender like that to a woman I KNOW should be below me in real normally functioning SMV, after what I've accomplished. So I'm single and always have been. My only other theory is the gold digger thing may need reframing, but they are so obvious to detect I can't help but think many times it's right on the money (aha, pun!) so this one is tougher to figure out. Maybe I'm so used to it now, and due to the long term rejections and beliefs about girls being impossible to get BEFORE I became successful, I equate girls "showing interest" as a gold digger or I outright think it isn't possible for her to actually like me and I must be wishful thinking or something from her must be misinterpreted, and shut it down.

I don't know if it's an issue of Goal #2 needing to be far more potent, or if it's a case of needing to see real life results in order to realise change is possible with women and can happen. I'm not sure which, or if it's both. I'm currently of the opinion that talk is cheap and "IOIs" can be easily misinterpreted because you want to see progress. And that real life results are all that matters, and I feel real life results can't be argued against, even with a negative past.

I agree with all of this, EXCEPT the IOI hatred. Yes, they can be misinterpreted, but reading body language is an art form like any other. It's not even that hard to become at it. You learn the basic theory, watch for patterns and watch how people's body language changes based on what you're saying or doing. Then, start trying to change their state. Eventually, you'll get good at it.

My DMSI successes are possible through reading body language. These IOIs that you're trying to negate as worthless? No -- it is the KEY indicator that informs me when to escalate.

Her outer body language is DIRECTLY tied to her inner state.

You're saying you're being rational and logical, saying "I need proof to believe this," but then you're casting aside the evidence being presented to you without investigating it. In my opinion, that's not true skepticism. A true skeptic withholds judgment until he or she has investigated all outcomes. You're not investigating body language and IOIs. You're just saying, "pfft, can't be real." You won't get to "real life" results without investigating body language.

(08-17-2016, 02:52 PM)CatMan Wrote: Oh, I don't have "IOI hatred", I just have doubts due to long term issues I've described, so these IOIs are questioned and doubted. That's it, it's not some "IOI hatred". I know those are the first signs, I've seen how girls look at guys they think or say are hot, and without them nothing can happen, but that doesn't stop the questioning of them happening to me due to issues. I don't think women have acted that same way to me, they seem to be far more obvious to other guys. But maybe that always is the case because you can be outside the situation and have a better viewpoint or something. I'm pretty sure I've never had that level of obviousness, I would remember it and it would help me see it's possible.

You pick up on the signals and go with them because you've HAD success with women, so there's confirmation there that the signals are correct and that you can be successful with women etc. I haven't had that, so there's doubt and questioning of these signals from women each time. It's kinda like a train I guess, once it has that momentum going, it's in a groove. Starting it is difficult. That's why I said I feel for situations like this, blunt, massive real world success is most effective at snapping you out of this spiral, anything less is vulnerable to being discounted. And just getting IOIs and using that as confirmation a sexual program is working, is faulty I feel. IOIs can be either misinterpreted because you want to believe it's working, or because there is an issue with you believing it's possible to get them to begin with. It goes both ways to be fair. I just don't want to get my hopes up being the "omg a girl looked at me, wow this program works!" guy. I want to be focused on the actual goal of this program, otherwise I might as well not use it.

That's what I was saying. It was more of to add on to what Gotcha said, instead of somewhat of a personal "poor me" post. I do think there's some benefit in there, though.

(08-17-2016, 03:11 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: I'm with you, man. Only thing I want to clarify is that I wasn't born a natural. Took a long time and lots of blowouts and disappointment to even get to a halfway decent level.

The question is: ... is the modern woman even worth all the trouble and emotional pain?

Yeah, I can get laid, but I've got some serious resentment toward women for the way I was treated getting to that point.