(08-06-2022, 02:36 PM)rono Wrote: Hi All, (8/5 & 8/6)

I'm getting toward the end of day 2 or 3 of my 'rest' part of my first cycle.

First day off, I definitely felt the 'bloom' and it was intense. Today (second FULL day off), it was MUCH less intense and is clearly tapering down. Today I feel things in my body that I used to feel when my hormones were getting low. Also, my mental state (there are certain types of thoughts and responses I have learned to notice when my hormones get low) has begun creep in like leaning to the 'poor me'/blaming side which always indicates I'm getting 'out of whack'. This feeling was absent while I was actually listening to the sub and the first 24-40 hours of break.

Today the 'smell' was definitely noticeable to me. It is almost like having eaten a garlic meal even though I haven't had anything spicy since Thursday (today is Saturday). The gas is non-existent now.

Appetite was absent yesterday. I didn't eat enough cause I just didn't feel like stopping to eat and wasn't hungry. Does that make sense? Could just be me, but wondering...

Questions for @Shannon:
1) I have stopped ALL hormone treatments, including herbs. My docs have me taking 'pro-hormones' and vitamins/minerals that supply the raw materials for making the hormones. It seems that I should continue putting the 'hormone raw materials' in my body so my subconscious and endocrine system have something to build the new hormones with. Am I correct on this point?

I have another question that is not occurring to me right now so I'll sign off and add it later.
(Just remembered and added it...)
2) I have had 2 or 3 'zits' or little skin things at any rate during the last 7-10 days. I suppose it is possible these are related to the sub's action? I'm 66 and haven't had more than one pimple a year, if that, for decades.


Cheers!
RonO

• Sharpness & Energy: We both have good energy levels, and mental sharpness. Based on our subjective measures using word games I would say that we are actually both more intuitive at this point as well. 
  
• Reduced Pain Relief side-effects: I have had to up my cbd and kratom intake because of a recurring painful mid-back spasm, BUT these powerful herbs are NOT toning down my sharpness in any way. Quite pleased with this.
  
• Testosterone Seems Good: Still no Test shots for going on 3 weeks at this point--used to do them 2x/wk. I'm feeling good, but I subjectively feel my muscles aren't thriving in spite of continued visits to the gym. Will measure in a couple days to see if I have actually shrunk.
  
• Weight Loss: BOTH of us (my wife as well) have been dropping pounds pretty much without trying. At this point it is only 5 lbs for me and about 3 lbs for her since the beginning of listening to the sub. It is a trend, too. NOT just fluctuations, it is trending down taking the fluctuation thing into account. 
  
• Heat Tolerance: Neither of us are as bothered by the 90+ degree heat we've been having for the last 3 weeks as much as we have in past Augusts.
  
• Improved Appetite: My appetite is improved. I have struggled with this since my two bouts of covid. So we can infer...
  
• Metabolism is Boosted: Based on what I see I've written above, I conclude my metabolism is up as well as my wife's. I personally don't usually seek to boost my metabolism other than through exercise because of a history of hyperthyroidism. But I'm not worried about this because it has been 20 years since I recovered from that and there has been no indication of slipping back into that.
  
• Libido is slightly down: Had hoped this would be kicked up a notch rather than go down a notch, but maybe this will recover over time after not using exogenous hormones for a while? Also, the testicles are still slightly smaller than when I was on HCG 2x/wk. These are my only negatives that I've observed. 
  
• Sleep patterns improved: We track our sleep patterns and while both of our sleep patterns are different, that is, we manifest different sleep issues. Both of our sleep issues are improving. We use Oura rings and app to measure this and I have nearly 3 years of history to compare against, so this observation is more scientific than the others. I get more deep than I used to, she gets more REM than she used to. 
  
• Heart Rate and BP down: Both my resting and active heart rates have dropped not just to my pre-covid levels but better than pre-covid. This is also a scientific observation based on my Oura ring records. Heart 'feels like' it is working more calmly and efficiently (subjective).
  

(08-17-2022, 12:07 PM)Z-Man Wrote: Hey Rono, Awesome results in only a little time. I glad your wife is starting to realize that there is something to subconscious mind. I can't wait for your results when you do the full run of this program.

Your wife can run HOWL after this one if she needs it.

(08-17-2022, 04:10 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 12:07 PM)Z-Man Wrote: Hey Rono, Awesome results in only a little time. I glad your wife is starting to realize that there is something to subconscious mind. I can't wait for your results when you do the full run of this program.

Your wife can run HOWL after this one if she needs it.

Thanks man!
The results are impressive so far, just not impressive in certain key areas (libido, etc.) that are extremely important even in the short term while awaiting the full realization of the possible effects. Plus you're not supposed to be taking anything that would help with those things in the meantime... kind of a catch-22. So far I'm managing that part but a bit concerned how long it will go like this.

Then, along the same lines Shannon says something to the effect in the info sheet, 'use this sub as long as you want the effects'. So once I get to where I want hormonally, I need to wander off the reservation in order to use other subliminals. 

So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

Unless, the effects become more prolonged once you've done the sub for a good 3-6 months maybe the effects become semi-permanent?

So while I am very impressed right now, I am wondering what the next year will look like. Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life? I'll be asking Shannon this question once he is back at it.

Thanks for the feedback! My hope is that it is useful for everyone. It's a real-world experience of a healthy couple in their mid-60s.

Cheers!
RonO

Quote:So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

Quote:Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life?

(08-23-2022, 10:23 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 04:10 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 12:07 PM)Z-Man Wrote: Hey Rono, Awesome results in only a little time. I glad your wife is starting to realize that there is something to subconscious mind. I can't wait for your results when you do the full run of this program.

Your wife can run HOWL after this one if she needs it.

Thanks man!
The results are impressive so far, just not impressive in certain key areas (libido, etc.) that are extremely important even in the short term while awaiting the full realization of the possible effects. Plus you're not supposed to be taking anything that would help with those things in the meantime... kind of a catch-22. So far I'm managing that part but a bit concerned how long it will go like this.

Then, along the same lines Shannon says something to the effect in the info sheet, 'use this sub as long as you want the effects'. So once I get to where I want hormonally, I need to wander off the reservation in order to use other subliminals. 

So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

Unless, the effects become more prolonged once you've done the sub for a good 3-6 months maybe the effects become semi-permanent?

So while I am very impressed right now, I am wondering what the next year will look like. Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life? I'll be asking Shannon this question once he is back at it.

Thanks for the feedback! My hope is that it is useful for everyone. It's a real-world experience of a healthy couple in their mid-60s.

Cheers!
RonO

I am a bit surprised by the lower libido, but that can probably be explained by the TRT being more T than you ever naturally produced.  If it's not that then the only thing I can think of is that you're selectively fighting that one point for some reason.  Is anything else you take, like kratom, potential to influence that negatively?

Unfortunately, manipulating the hormones requires a constant and ongoing effort.  There does not seem to be anything I can do about that, at least not right now.  You'll have to stick with this program while you want the effects it gives.  I know, I'm killing my sales this way, but I'd rather be honest and you get what you paid for.

Quote:So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

A week off is good, but here's the thing.  You may be experiencing weight loss on this, but as strange as it sounds, that may not hold with HOWL.  HOWL is designed for people who want to lose weight, but do not have a specific emotional or psychological reason for being over their (consciously) desired weight.  If she has such a situation - and based on her response to the appetite suppressant, she does - HOWL may not work, or may not work as well.  So just stick with this one for a while and see how you like it.

Quote:Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life?

No, I'll eventually know enough to upgrade it and improve it.  Hopefully I will find a way to make these effects long term.  But who knows?  I can only do the best I can do within the limits of real world conditions. 

Thanks for the feedback.

(08-23-2022, 01:38 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-23-2022, 10:23 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 04:10 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 12:07 PM)Z-Man Wrote: Hey Rono, Awesome results in only a little time. I glad your wife is starting to realize that there is something to subconscious mind. I can't wait for your results when you do the full run of this program.

Your wife can run HOWL after this one if she needs it.

Thanks man!
The results are impressive so far, just not impressive in certain key areas (libido, etc.) that are extremely important even in the short term while awaiting the full realization of the possible effects. Plus you're not supposed to be taking anything that would help with those things in the meantime... kind of a catch-22. So far I'm managing that part but a bit concerned how long it will go like this.

Then, along the same lines Shannon says something to the effect in the info sheet, 'use this sub as long as you want the effects'. So once I get to where I want hormonally, I need to wander off the reservation in order to use other subliminals. 

So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

Unless, the effects become more prolonged once you've done the sub for a good 3-6 months maybe the effects become semi-permanent?

So while I am very impressed right now, I am wondering what the next year will look like. Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life? I'll be asking Shannon this question once he is back at it.

Thanks for the feedback! My hope is that it is useful for everyone. It's a real-world experience of a healthy couple in their mid-60s.

Cheers!
RonO

I am a bit surprised by the lower libido, but that can probably be explained by the TRT being more T than you ever naturally produced.  If it's not that then the only thing I can think of is that you're selectively fighting that one point for some reason.  Is anything else you take, like kratom, potential to influence that negatively?

Unfortunately, manipulating the hormones requires a constant and ongoing effort.  There does not seem to be anything I can do about that, at least not right now.  You'll have to stick with this program while you want the effects it gives.  I know, I'm killing my sales this way, but I'd rather be honest and you get what you paid for.

Quote:So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

A week off is good, but here's the thing.  You may be experiencing weight loss on this, but as strange as it sounds, that may not hold with HOWL.  HOWL is designed for people who want to lose weight, but do not have a specific emotional or psychological reason for being over their (consciously) desired weight.  If she has such a situation - and based on her response to the appetite suppressant, she does - HOWL may not work, or may not work as well.  So just stick with this one for a while and see how you like it.

Quote:Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life?

No, I'll eventually know enough to upgrade it and improve it.  Hopefully I will find a way to make these effects long term.  But who knows?  I can only do the best I can do within the limits of real world conditions. 

Thanks for the feedback.

Thank YOU for the feedback @Shannon!  I'm baffled that I can feel the stimulation of my metabolism almost too much, and yet, the initial libido boost I had has faded badly.

Kratom in the quantities I am taking has never had a negative impact on libido (quite the opposite, to a small degree in fact). For a couple months I was pain free and completely went off of it and didn't notice either improvement nor reduction to any great degree.

We'll keep watching her progress on the weight and report as there are progress/changes of interest. I'm not losing any more, but I'm the lowest I've been for a long time I'm 6'2" and recently been weighing in at 184. I have always felt best at 187-195, but I'm doing ok and trying to eat more.

When I was young, I had LOTS of T and a LOT of libido. It was insane. In my mid 40s I had a crash due to diet. I was following 'health food' advice and going vegan, eating a lot of soy (for the protein) and ended up with a hormone crash that did not resolve after going off the soy.... a couple years later I came down with hyperthyroid and lost oodles of weight became shaky, etc. survived that one. Soooo... when I think about 'younger years' or 'youthfulness' I think in terms of mid twenties because that was when I was definitely at my best. 

We'll see... hopefully the libido is just a little slow in responding to the sub.

Question: if I bought the other sub "sexual arousal magnifier" would that fold into a weekly or twice-weekly protocol for when we are having 'date night'? To give myself a boost while not feeling particularly game?

Cheers!
RonO

(08-25-2022, 07:58 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(08-23-2022, 01:38 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-23-2022, 10:23 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 04:10 PM)rono Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 12:07 PM)Z-Man Wrote: Hey Rono, Awesome results in only a little time. I glad your wife is starting to realize that there is something to subconscious mind. I can't wait for your results when you do the full run of this program.

Your wife can run HOWL after this one if she needs it.

Thanks man!
The results are impressive so far, just not impressive in certain key areas (libido, etc.) that are extremely important even in the short term while awaiting the full realization of the possible effects. Plus you're not supposed to be taking anything that would help with those things in the meantime... kind of a catch-22. So far I'm managing that part but a bit concerned how long it will go like this.

Then, along the same lines Shannon says something to the effect in the info sheet, 'use this sub as long as you want the effects'. So once I get to where I want hormonally, I need to wander off the reservation in order to use other subliminals. 

So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

Unless, the effects become more prolonged once you've done the sub for a good 3-6 months maybe the effects become semi-permanent?

So while I am very impressed right now, I am wondering what the next year will look like. Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life? I'll be asking Shannon this question once he is back at it.

Thanks for the feedback! My hope is that it is useful for everyone. It's a real-world experience of a healthy couple in their mid-60s.

Cheers!
RonO

I am a bit surprised by the lower libido, but that can probably be explained by the TRT being more T than you ever naturally produced.  If it's not that then the only thing I can think of is that you're selectively fighting that one point for some reason.  Is anything else you take, like kratom, potential to influence that negatively?

Unfortunately, manipulating the hormones requires a constant and ongoing effort.  There does not seem to be anything I can do about that, at least not right now.  You'll have to stick with this program while you want the effects it gives.  I know, I'm killing my sales this way, but I'd rather be honest and you get what you paid for.

Quote:So, if my wife LIKES the results she's getting, how long does she need to be off this one, in order to use that one?

A week off is good, but here's the thing.  You may be experiencing weight loss on this, but as strange as it sounds, that may not hold with HOWL.  HOWL is designed for people who want to lose weight, but do not have a specific emotional or psychological reason for being over their (consciously) desired weight.  If she has such a situation - and based on her response to the appetite suppressant, she does - HOWL may not work, or may not work as well.  So just stick with this one for a while and see how you like it.

Quote:Am I going to be listening to this sub at night most of the rest of my life in order to get the effects for the rest of my life?

No, I'll eventually know enough to upgrade it and improve it.  Hopefully I will find a way to make these effects long term.  But who knows?  I can only do the best I can do within the limits of real world conditions. 

Thanks for the feedback.

Thank YOU for the feedback @Shannon!  I'm baffled that I can feel the stimulation of my metabolism almost too much, and yet, the initial libido boost I had has faded badly.

Kratom in the quantities I am taking has never had a negative impact on libido (quite the opposite, to a small degree in fact). For a couple months I was pain free and completely went off of it and didn't notice either improvement nor reduction to any great degree.

We'll keep watching her progress on the weight and report as there are progress/changes of interest. I'm not losing any more, but I'm the lowest I've been for a long time I'm 6'2" and recently been weighing in at 184. I have always felt best at 187-195, but I'm doing ok and trying to eat more.

When I was young, I had LOTS of T and a LOT of libido. It was insane. In my mid 40s I had a crash due to diet. I was following 'health food' advice and going vegan, eating a lot of soy (for the protein) and ended up with a hormone crash that did not resolve after going off the soy.... a couple years later I came down with hyperthyroid and lost oodles of weight became shaky, etc. survived that one. Soooo... when I think about 'younger years' or 'youthfulness' I think in terms of mid twenties because that was when I was definitely at my best. 

We'll see... hopefully the libido is just a little slow in responding to the sub.

Question: if I bought the other sub "sexual arousal magnifier" would that fold into a weekly or twice-weekly protocol for when we are having 'date night'? To give myself a boost while not feeling particularly game?

Cheers!
RonO

Because the hormones these two are affecting are being affected in a similar direction, it should not be too disruptive.  Give it a try and if it causes issues, then don't mix them.  But for use once or twice a week, it should be okay.

• The mental clarity and memory improvement are gone....
  
• My moods have sunk to an all-time low and am struggling with low-T  crankiness, it's subtle and sometimes I don't notice it till after I've triggered a conflict with the wife. This happens due to me over-reacting to something legitimately negative she does, that I just can't handle, but WAS handling fine early in running the sub.
  
• The first couple days of this cycle my testicular size started to reverse and grow again, but yesterday evening and today, has sunk again.
  
• I am losing weight that I don't want to lose and having trouble eating enough. The weight isn't good weight-- my belly is actually a little bigger today than it was two weeks ago, yet I'm 5 pounds lighter than 4 weeks ago. This means I'm losing muscle cause I don't have much fat anywhere else on arms or legs, etc.
  
• Libido is at an all time low, sexual excitement and erections are hard to get
  
• Wife's weight loss stopped for a few days and the reverted.
  

(08-25-2022, 09:51 AM)rono Wrote: Hi All, (8/25/2022),

Overall, this is not going to be a great report.

I am kind of on my third cycle. I had done a short second cycle but several things militated against faithfulness to it-- one was a sleepless night that we couldn't explain, so I turned it off and skipped it the following night (this was during my second cycle I think).

I'm 3 days in after my last break of 2 or 3 days, and just not feeling myself at ALL.... 

• The mental clarity and memory improvement are gone....
  
• My moods have sunk to an all-time low and am struggling with low-T  crankiness, it's subtle and sometimes I don't notice it till after I've triggered a conflict with the wife. This happens due to me over-reacting to something legitimately negative she does, that I just can't handle, but WAS handling fine early in running the sub.
  
• The first couple days of this cycle my testicular size started to reverse and grow again, but yesterday evening and today, has sunk again.
  
• I am losing weight that I don't want to lose and having trouble eating enough. The weight isn't good weight-- my belly is actually a little bigger today than it was two weeks ago, yet I'm 5 pounds lighter than 4 weeks ago. This means I'm losing muscle cause I don't have much fat anywhere else on arms or legs, etc.
  
• Libido is at an all time low, sexual excitement and erections are hard to get
  
• Wife's weight loss stopped for a few days and the reverted.
  

@Shannon: I'm trying to figure out how to proceed here. Do you think there is still a chance I'll see the T come back up over another week, or is it turning out to not work for my needs? It's doing great at boosting metabolism, but that actually worries me because of my history of Grave's disease (hyperthyroid). Should I take a prolonged break, go back on my T stuff and so on? Take another run after a month? So far my productivity isn't affected, but my short term memory has been negatively affected over the last few days and I'm worried THAT will affect my productivity.

Advice?

RonO

p.s. It occurred to me that a possible plan would be to go off it again, see if it 'blooms', and then wait till effects fade again. One of the symptoms of low T for me is a panicky feeling. It is extremely unpleasant. When I was first diagnosed with Low T, I had figured it out by the symptoms and got my dr. to make the test ONLY by bargaining with him to take a 'depression test' because he was convinced I needed SSRIs... "Here, take these!" Then when my test came back I had the T of an 84-y-o man, twice my age at the time.

(08-25-2022, 10:31 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(08-25-2022, 09:51 AM)rono Wrote: Hi All, (8/25/2022),

Overall, this is not going to be a great report.

I am kind of on my third cycle. I had done a short second cycle but several things militated against faithfulness to it-- one was a sleepless night that we couldn't explain, so I turned it off and skipped it the following night (this was during my second cycle I think).

I'm 3 days in after my last break of 2 or 3 days, and just not feeling myself at ALL.... 

• The mental clarity and memory improvement are gone....
  
• My moods have sunk to an all-time low and am struggling with low-T  crankiness, it's subtle and sometimes I don't notice it till after I've triggered a conflict with the wife. This happens due to me over-reacting to something legitimately negative she does, that I just can't handle, but WAS handling fine early in running the sub.
  
• The first couple days of this cycle my testicular size started to reverse and grow again, but yesterday evening and today, has sunk again.
  
• I am losing weight that I don't want to lose and having trouble eating enough. The weight isn't good weight-- my belly is actually a little bigger today than it was two weeks ago, yet I'm 5 pounds lighter than 4 weeks ago. This means I'm losing muscle cause I don't have much fat anywhere else on arms or legs, etc.
  
• Libido is at an all time low, sexual excitement and erections are hard to get
  
• Wife's weight loss stopped for a few days and the reverted.
  

@Shannon: I'm trying to figure out how to proceed here. Do you think there is still a chance I'll see the T come back up over another week, or is it turning out to not work for my needs? It's doing great at boosting metabolism, but that actually worries me because of my history of Grave's disease (hyperthyroid). Should I take a prolonged break, go back on my T stuff and so on? Take another run after a month? So far my productivity isn't affected, but my short term memory has been negatively affected over the last few days and I'm worried THAT will affect my productivity.

Advice?

RonO

p.s. It occurred to me that a possible plan would be to go off it again, see if it 'blooms', and then wait till effects fade again. One of the symptoms of low T for me is a panicky feeling. It is extremely unpleasant. When I was first diagnosed with Low T, I had figured it out by the symptoms and got my dr. to make the test ONLY by bargaining with him to take a 'depression test' because he was convinced I needed SSRIs... "Here, take these!" Then when my test came back I had the T of an 84-y-o man, twice my age at the time.

It looks to me like what you're dealing with here is a subconscious fear of having your hormones not be good enough, where they should be, or something similar, which may be in part causing that to result artificially, and which appears to be interfering with you allowing the sub to do what it's designed to do out of that fear for some reason.  This is of course extremely irrational, since executing would solve the problem, but it looks like that part of you is convinced that only the doctor/pills/patches/etc. can (or should be allowed to) help, and if that's the case, then this is self sabotage, with a focus on testosterone levels based on what scares you the most. 

Going off a hormone optimizer is going to drop them like a rock, and within a few days to a week the benefits will likely be entirely gone, since it takes constant effort to produce and maintain them. Since that is all it does, there is unlikely to be a bloom at all.

So let's look at your usage patterns and see if we can find a solution there.

First, how do you feel after 2 days off?  3?
Second, how many loops per day on are you using?
Third, what format?
Fourth, what are you playing it on?
Fifth, what volume?