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+--- Thread: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 (/Thread-Have-you-no-shame-OGSF-5G-EPRHA-2-0)
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - SargeMaximus - 04-08-2016
Hey LK, could it be that you're looking for recognition? Something in your post reminded me of when I was doing SM 3 and how, at work one day, I was doing way better than everyone and I mentioned to a co-worker that I wanted a "trophy" i.e. recognition.
Perhaps the feeling of needing to get away from society is needing to distinguish yourself in some fashion. To not be just another cog in the wheel so to speak.
Or I could be completely wrong.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-08-2016
Could be. The needing to get away is mostly needing to get away from that need and pressure to decide, though. For some peace of mind. "not be just another cog in the wheel" could apply to other things though, such a wanting to special through what I do. Not sure id I'd say its good or bad, but hey that's a good note.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-08-2016
Its very much like approach anxiety towards life that I'm feeling - have been for a while now. Its irrational. I know the answer to be "Just go out n' talk to some chicks, see if you like someone. Don't take it too seriously, just enjoy it, its an experience.". Only this time the rejection could be something like losing my current job and maybe having to leave my apartment. But its still not like I'd die or anything. I have relatives who'd take me in, and when there I'd drive myself through a brick wall to going again. There's considerable fear of shame in the negative consequences and being stuck for so long too. Shame of rejection from the society, since I feel like I can't pull my weight in a capacity that I'd like to, and expect myself to.
Again, thinking I should do a month of OGSF and then come back to this. Maybe clear the blocks to action a bit, then work on the emotional content some more. E2 has all those confidence and approval seeking bits, but since they're tagged towards "healing", I don't know if they practically apply to my situations or not. Hmm. But again, why so serious :D I don't wanna switch when feeling low though, resistance.
ION: Just noticed that I can go jogging in the city center without too much thought into it. To a quieter part of it. Always used to seek somewhere out of sight. Also that I've been getting back to jogging lately, just for a sort of stress release and health.
E: Not that I'm really feeling afraid of everything, but it must be fear manifesting as this ridiculous indecisiveness and lack in the ability to take risks. If it isn't, then I don't know what it is. Its not like I used to be helpless, but I've somehow learned into it. I know my circumstances drive to it, but then again not sure which came first. And it doesn't really matter anyway. Just gotta it some time to process.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-08-2016
Ah, since I'm posting all day I might as well write up the conclusion. I live to entertain.
I read Shannon post on someone's journal earlier in the day about setting goals, and then 4Kingdoms mentioned them. My goals for right this second, every second, are to solve and achieve everything. Whatever I want, I feel like I should be accomplishing it now, or I'm disappointing myself.
Goals for the next month:
-Survive another month of E2 to see what it does (passive goal)
-Reduce time online (needs to be more exact)
-Get this one thing at work done as well as I possibly can, while managing all other work stuffed on me
-Keep up meditation, exercising, two hobbies, seeing my girl and my friends
-Get up earlier at X AM (have to, its getting ridiculous)
-Reformat my job application to be more manageable and send out N applications
I'll have to promise myself to be satisfied if I get just these done. I'm leaving out e.g. online learning (android and languages), fasting and a few other items. As well as women that are always on unconscious goal. I should probably add something that's not all for myself, like setup E2 listening for my girl, for example. Or something.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - 4Kingdoms - 04-08-2016
@LionKing
http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7177-post-106618.html#pid106618
My post wasn't directed towards you. It was directed towards anyone willing to read it. Whether we realize it or not... every time we choose a subliminal title to listen to with the intensity and dedication that we put into it; we have a goal we want to reach and we believe that listening to that specific subliminal title will help us reach our goal.
Continue with E2, there is a reason why you chose it.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-09-2016
Day 35
Didn't think I would at first, but then I remembered some dreams I was having this morning. All kinds of stuff, even some fear. Good to know its working on something and that's why I feel like recovering from a sickness, not just because the program isn't working and I'm "back to my old self". Though my old self was never depressed, so that's not right anyway.
Did Attachment & Aversions on approaching beautiful women, inspired by one of my dreams. Took some 2-3 hours. Letting go of A & A towards is pretty much be same thing as let go of all women, so its not any wonder really it takes some time to go through. After a Ton of stuff of both sides (av first), what it comes down to on the attachments side ("could I let go of all my attachment to approaching b. women?") is the old being able to give approval to yourself. "Supply your own love, affection and attention.", "Self love and liking yourself" and "Be self sufficient and self reliant" from the AM6 sales page. Taking yourself out to a movie, dinner, long walk, a trip, beer, dancing, bath, meditation, and so on. Come to think of it, I was actually doing that quite a bit around stage 4 and 5 of my second run. Didn't think much of it, probably longed for getting more results.
I'm really starting a developed a new respect for AM and its goals. I read through it last week and I thought I got way better than before, but now its really resonating deeply. Its no wonder its such a hard program to "get results" from. Used to hate the isolating part of it and thought "I don't want to run it, all I'll get is more isolation and no results". But that is the result, partially. I think what its supposed to do is to get you to just love & approve being with yourself, even alone, and not have to do anything to get more approval from external sources. Once you have that, well then you can whatever you wish. And the other part of AM is to drive you to do just that: do what it is you want to do, and build something you like. And then the extra modules added (women, socializing) are just there because "why not, let's make it complete", and to give you that full, fun experience of life with chicks and loyal friends and overall a good time. So its sort of in three layers. No wonder I've had such a hard time with the program, since I've (well, me & most everyone else I think) always been so attached to the 2nd and 3rd layer visible results that of course I've resisted all the program's efforts to steer away from those results, as going for the 1st layer stuff seemed to be at the time. It should be about having it all, but only after letting go of it all, and as a consequence being free to do whatever I wish - thus eventually having it all.
Afterwards, feeling clear and good about myself and the future, I pressed play on E2, prepared some food and took a nap. Quite obvious through the contrast how E2 brought back that hint of melancholy that I've had. Must be working on something grand then. Hope its something that will eventually be finished until the next issue, and not just continue like trying to drain an ocean through a small straw.
Gonna do A & A wrt. to running AM6 as I have time again. Its my way of getting that peace of mind I was so longing for yesterday. Facing those demons one by one, and not have them gang up on me and beat from every direction at once while I'm desperately trying to make sense of it. My next run of AM is going to be sweet!
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-11-2016
Day 38
The last two days have been a lot better. There was especially one long walk outside I took that was really good for reflection and calmed me down.
Yesterday I set up a system for myself where I divide what needs to be done into small incremental goals, and then assign them to different week days every Sunday. I'm using Todoist. If I follow through with this weeks plan, I should be ready to send out job applications again next week.
Also making progress at work. I seem to not be so horrified by the thought of doing some things now that I have a little momentum. Avoiding some people who operate from stress and resistance though, as I'm trying to let that go. Apparently still avoiding the hard stuff enough to want to post this update, so.. let's get to it then.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-17-2016
Day 43
I scheduled an update for myself this weekend, but there's not much concrete to say. I'd say I'm definitely calming down and I've been quite productive the whole week. There were one or two moments where I felt this despair over how much I need to, how hard everything is, how its too much, etc etc, but then it faded away both times. Listening times are higher again.
Someone mentioned it on the forum, so I've been reading The slight edge, and its a really good book. That's why I've been so productive doing little things will, in time, create big changes. The message is very simple, but to me its been very empowering, so I definitely recommend it to anyone who feels they can't get started on anything.
I was thinking something before, but it feels so distant already.. I was thinking that, like the book says, those little mundane actions that add up to great achievements over time are easy to do, and easy not to do. However, with women and social "training" they were never easy to (make myself) do. And I've been saying it hasn't really felt like fear, like fear of heights for example, in a long time. But I can see it as my ego's fear of death. Its not like the ego is separate from me, but this makes it clearer for me.
Since I've already had many short moments of success - those rock star moments in a bar/club where you have some 8 girls all trying to talk to you at the same time, and those other times when you just happen to be really "on" and everything is fun and you meet and/or pull some amazing girl - those were the moments my ego clutched onto as hard as it could. So, for example after running SM3, my ego was attached and trying to maintain this state where I'm feeling sexy and I hear women saying "he must be taken" as I walk by them in a club. However, in real life that was completely in the past and my present was something else entirely: I'd be distracted, anxious, feeling shy, and beat myself from not living up to what I remember being in those short memories. So I guess much of my social anxiety, and especially avoidance of going out, has to do with that inflated ego being afraid its going to die, because I'll never be able to live up to those expectations, and I'd have to face reality. And its not just about women, but social situations in general. For years I've had these great days, but then when thinking about going somewhere later on I'll feel very tired and even sad somewhat because I'll think its hopeless, I can't be that guy today (who I was being with zero effort before). Anyway, the mundane action of just going out for a bit (or approaching 2 per day) hasn't been easy to go, because it represents suicide for the ego, which brings up a feeling of hopelessness. Though its only a problem if I think about it, so its irrational. Not that I'm interested in going out or approaching at all at the moment, I've got other things on my mind.
Anyway, I'm quite proud about some of the work I did today.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - 4Kingdoms - 04-17-2016
(04-17-2016, 06:18 AM)LionKing Wrote: Not that I'm interested in going out or approaching at all at the moment, I've got other things on my mind.
When I read this sentence, I feel you are trying to justify a reason not to socialize.
(04-17-2016, 06:18 AM)LionKing Wrote: I guess much of my social anxiety, and especially avoidance of going out, has to do with that inflated ego being afraid its going to die, because I'll never be able to live up to those expectations, and I'd have to face reality. And its not just about women, but social situations in general.
From what I understand about what you are saying. You go out to go out. I used to do the same thing until someone invited me to something I really enjoyed. Then I looked forward to going out!!
Here are two websites that help you find, connect with people that have the same interests with you.
When you already have something in common... it becomes a game changer!!
http://meetin.org/
http://www.meetup.com/
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-17-2016
(04-17-2016, 08:06 AM)4Kingdoms Wrote:(04-17-2016, 06:18 AM)LionKing Wrote: Not that I'm interested in going out or approaching at all at the moment, I've got other things on my mind.
When I read this sentence, I feel you are trying to justify a reason not to socialize.
No. I was out socializing with a couple of friends last night, I'm just now (late for) leaving to see my girl, and I have social hobbies 3 times a week. I'm not approaching because I'm not sleeping with other women for the time being, by my choice. I'm not trying to justify not going out, I'm just trying to better understand and observe, any blocks when I do go out.
Unfortunately no meetup groups here, I have checked before. Will check the other one. What you said is what I have been thinking as well - that I want to DO something rather than just be there - but I'm still searching for solutions. Would have more choice in a bigger city.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - 4Kingdoms - 04-17-2016
(04-17-2016, 08:06 AM)4Kingdoms Wrote: From what I understand about what you are saying. You go out to go out. I used to do the same thing until someone invited me to something I really enjoyed. Then I looked forward to going out!! When you already have something in common... it becomes a game changer!!
(04-17-2016, 08:30 AM)LionKing Wrote: Unfortunately no meetup groups here, I have checked before. Will check the other one. What you said is what I have been thinking as well - that I want to DO something rather than just be there - but I'm still searching for solutions. Would have more choice in a bigger city.
Ok, glad we understand each other!!
Best wishes on finding the missing piece of your puzzle!!
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-20-2016
Day 46
I feel like it took the first 30 days for the program to deal with the most pressing emotional issues (whatever they were; I was just feeling down a lot), and after that its been going to work on making things better.
The book (The slight edge) has been really motivating, I've constantly either been doing something productive or resting these last 2 weeks. At least 3 times I've even cried a bit just reading the book, because there were these... revelations of "yes, I can actually do that.. and that.. and I guess even that..". Hope, I guess. Empowering. Confidence has been on the rise as well lately. Nothing drastic, but noticeable still.
Why I wanted to post today is because I was clearly having fear-related dreams last night! Many dreams, or one really long and winding one. At some point there were several instances with some bullies that were much bigger than me, and I always stood my ground and kicked their asses. Then to the last one I met I said something like "You should know by now, if there's one thing I'm not.. its that I'm NOT afraid of any of you guys." I'm happy about this, since I'm always wondering in the back of my mind if I should be doing OGSF instead.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-21-2016
Day 48
It seems I'm getting more and more interest from women that I'm dealing with on a weekly basis (not instant, on-the-street attraction). Attraction and them asking me if I'm going to this or this event, complimenting me and saying that I should teach them something, saying "we" should/could/can do smt, bringing back casual conversations that were cut short weeks ago, etc. It just often surprises me and I'm like "Hey.. what, I didn't ask for this, what's happening here?", because I wasn't "in the mood for it" at all, i.e. I wasn't trying. Its different from that explicit IDGAF, "I'm sexy and I know it", "Ha, I'm too hot to care about that hottie" attitude. I understand that attitude well, and its way better than the beta mindset, but I've been a little repelled by it when I've seen it lately. Feels pride-centric and ego-centric, "I'm better than you" centric. Some form of weakness.
Just saw this, that's it:
(04-21-2016, 05:12 PM)Shannon Wrote: The responses you're getting from women are due to you being self providing, self fulfilling, needless and filled with unconditional love. Women are almost invariably attracted by unconditional love.
Thinking about what the different approaches taken by AM6 and EPRHA2, and it is or is not clear than AM is the end goal and not EPRHA2. If E2 can make one happy, open, productive, even attractive in some way, then, in contrast, is AM an attempt to seek out that independence and success as a way to get to where E2 is aimed directly? In other words, with and after E2, is there something I'm supposed to be lacking so that I'd need to do AM in order to get it? And also, if I'm happy and open after E2, then would AM build on that and add that sharper edge of confidence and keep me very happy and fullfilled? I hope so.
RE: Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0 - LionKing - 04-24-2016
Day 50
+I was out with my girl, looking at some people I found interesting, and she said: "You're so interesting... I know you have a soft side, but then you also have this hard side to you.. masculine. Idk, I guess it comes out in the way you act, somehow.. and also you don't ever jump to please me if I ask for something, even though I know you care.". Or smt like that, it took her a while to get those thoughts together. And then what's odd is that she said she's been afraid of doing something that might upset me or make me angry, even I'm never angry at her, and that she couldn't understand it. Phero users, could this be a side effect of using AV? I dab a little on as a habit now when I go out. Could be about other things as well that I won't go into here. But anyways, seems like my old self (and AM training) isn't completely dormant on E2 - great!
+Socializing it great. Talking to familiar people (girls) at parties is super easy and I actually had many of them come talk to me. I'm surprised by getting increased interest from those very pretty, but sensitive or "fragile" girls I think I used to scare off before.
+Just today I had this realization that I couldn't understand why it could be hard to have and keep up a conversation with someone over coffee or something. That blew my mind. Thinking about, the difference was that I'd usually think of that socializing as a threat because I'd have to "defend" myself against this feeling, failure, of not being social enough, or good enough, or something. Now the whole perspective was: of course I'd like to talk to someone I like (I presume I like them), and of course I'd want to get to know them because I like them and they're probably interesting (assumption again). It'd be so easy to continue about any subject, since there's bound to be something about that person that I'd find interesting. So the other perspective is all about me and protecting myself from the other person, while the other perspective is all about just being interested in her, since I'm assuming there's something I like about her. But its not needy, since I'd not be trying to get her to like me, but in fact just find out why I might like her.
+Confidence is coming back. I've laid the ground work for job application during these last weeks, and I sent out two applications today. I've also exercised at least 15 minutes every day, almost always more. I'm listing out 3 things to be grateful of every morning (for 2 weeks now also). Also been getting up without snoozing for a couple days now, except that I didn't have an alarm on the weekend (and was a bit hungover too).
+When I'm dealing with the emotional stuff, I'll feel drained and not in the least bit alpha. Sometimes I'll cry a bit, but its always about hope. E.g. reading about something, and then realizing I CAN do this. Afterwards I'll feel spent for the day or two. Then again when that's not happening, I'm actually starting to feel somewhat alpha again. Though I did meet some Julien-style friends when I was out, and I do feel somewhat fragile in comparison. Its like they have their whole thick steel armor on and they have that gun powder ready to ignite and make a violent blast, and there just as open as them but with this very thin leather armor vest and I kind of have to be more careful. But then again when they go broadcasting themselves to girls its loud and fun, but they're also all keeping themselves behind that armor and they're thinking to themselves and looking around, and its pointless. But understandable. I have a much easier time with actually connecting, but if I wanted to chase tail there'd still be plenty of fear and shame keeping me still.
+More and more I feel I'm fine without getting any new tail, because, come on, sex is sex. And the sex I'm already having is awesome. So it being better with a new girl is all about that "accomplishment", when the actual sex is not likely to be better. Of course variety is hot, but as a total experience. Accomplishment I guess means.. win of approval, status, proving that I'm good to.. me? Others? I guess its that the lifestyle itself of having girls and success and all that is something I think I should have - like if I felt I need to have a cool car to be successful. On the other hand, I did dream of sleeping with several women at some apartment, and dealing with some shame/guilt wanting to hide the other's interest in me from some of the other ones.
+Wanting to do AM, but its likely I'll be on E2 for at least a month more. Doing it for 6 months and then ASC 6G would be awesome, but there's no way of knowing when that comes out. 3-6 months of E2 and then jumping on the AM refresher could be interesting. Having run AM twice, I don't want to start it because it feels like absolutely nothing happening for 3-4 months for me, thus the refresher. Anyway, irrelevant right now.
-Damn, I wanted to make this update quick. I had nothing to say and thought to just get it over with :D