People 'round these parts seem to be polarized about clearing i.e. tapping, pstec, etc.

Some members—most notably Geodude, have sung praises about the aforementioned tools for dealing with the shit that surfaces with subs. There is even debate about which method works better and why.

To my knowledge, no method of clearing is endorsed by Shannon. I'd be interested in what he has to say on the subject. I'd also like to hear the arguments for and against.

You shouldn't need to do those things, the sub takes care of them. From what I've gathered you need to be very accurate and careful what you put in your mind (subconscious). Personally my faith is in Shannon's creativity, not faddy unproven and throwaway statements conflicting with the subliminals.

I'd say if you want to test it, do that with a simpler (1-stage) sub. Less change of interference that way. Too damn hard to a evaluate what's going on at any given moment with the multistage subs that are packed full of everything.

Don't do this.

I've compare people who use it with subs and their journals aren't satisfying. Play with the surest method possible.

Read a book or learn any material, let the subs crystallized you and go out to let the experience polish you.

My second 2 cents: do mindfulness meditation daily to learn to notice your emotions and the feelings in your body during everyday life. With tapping etc. you're basically going back to something that happened in the past (or imagined) and then work on letting go of that. But if, instead of just unconsciously resisting it and being tense, you notice e.g. that you're are now getting anxious in a social situation, you feel it in your body, you notice you're resisting that anxious feeling and trying to act tough and hide it, that alone, with time, will help you feel much better and start to loosen up. And no, I don't believe that the subs will be negatively influenced if you are actually present in your life. Or if they are I don't care.

I've only been using subs for a little over a month. At first, when I started to read posts about people using pstec and eft and faster eft and hypnosis and nlp, i was actually inspired to find out about these techniques and see how i can utilize it in my own life. But then it struck me as counterproductive because in my experience, all the negative emotions coming up through stage 1 is integral to getting over them. During stage one, nearly every night all sorts of experiences I've felt guilty or shameful about vividly expressed themselves in the front of my consciousness, to where I could almost feel it happening again. Shortly thereafter, I could feel the tension release in my face and in my mind about the experience. So I've come to the conclusion that these other techniques might just be shoving the negativity back into the subconscious while the sub is trying to help remove it; coupled with the fact that there's nothing that states the efficacy of using it with or without subs except for anecdotal experiences I've been reading, and Shannon's pretty rigid formula on how it works, I say don't mess with the formula. It's designed to work in and of itself.

Keep in mind I'm still a N00B at this stuff, so YMMV

Edit: I'm talking about stage 1 AM6

My suggestion would be, if you want to tap then do it, but let the subs alone. If you decide doing subs so do the subs and let all the tapping alone. I have done some FEFT and PSTEC in the past and all I can say is that I cleared some stuff but some stuff came always back. After stopping all the tapping the stuff made me so uncomfortable that I had to take some action and change a given situation (and make some progress therefore). Probably the sub pushed me into one direction but I cleared it over and over. If I hadn't done the tapping I probably would have done that earlier.

(02-06-2015, 02:33 PM)Ricardo Wrote: You shouldn't need to do those things, the sub takes care of them. From what I've gathered you need to be very accurate and careful what you put in your mind (subconscious). Personally my faith is in Shannon's creativity, not faddy unproven and throwaway statements conflicting with the subliminals.

I echo a lot of your sentiments. With respect, I feel the whole thing is nonsense. If it actually works (which I doubt), then you're cheating yourself out of the chance to experience and deal with negative things so they don't affect you anymore. Running from the negative stuff and never dealing with it properly as the subliminal is trying to get you to do...won't get you to where you need to be. You're getting in the way of the entire point of the subliminal, to bring up unpleasant stuff, and make you realise it won't kill you after all and put it to rest and not have it OWN you anymore. It's like the subliminal is a Lamborghini you're driving, but this stuff keeps you in neutral.

Shannon himself even speaks of how the "useful negative" is needed to manifest change. I knew that fact already in life, but didn't phrase it that way. But when I saw him speak of it, instantly I knew what he meant and that we were on the same wavelength.

I've thought for awhile now that Shannon should change the rules, so that only his subliminal is allowed during the program, nothing else at ALL. That way nothing interferes and ruins the results and you have people sadly spending 6 months of their time and getting such a little return.

I have also noticed that the people who do all that stuff seem to stagnate and not really change at all. The people who don't, seem to make measurable change that is obvious. I didn't want to mention this on the forums because I didn't want to badmouth people trying to change. In the end, we're all on our own path, I'm focused on my path, and won't question someone else's because it doesn't concern me and ultimately isn't my business. But if other people are seeing it, then maybe it's good for others to see this, maybe they'll "get out of their own way" so to speak, and allow the programming to do it's job. And maybe Shannon will end up changing the rules of the programs in the future due to this issue to prevent others from sabotaging their own success.

Here's a final thought. I've had this thought since I first started reading this forum. I'll share it with all of you...what IF, this whole tapping thing does cause you to not experience the "useful negative", so you don't change, and in the end, it's an extremely advanced form of fear-based resistance. Ponder THAT for awhile...

Stumbled upon this. It's a widely popular website, ranking high in search engines. Here's a snapshot for what it's worth




edit: Source: emofree.com

My overall opinion is that your better off not using tapping, PSTEC, etc. Just like some others have mentioned I've noticed as well that a lot of the Journals where people were using a lot of those clearing tools seemed to get lack luster results. I had tried to use those clearing tools a few months ago at the beginning of AM6 but two days later there were a couple of posts on the forums from members who said they noticed slow/or negating effects of results when they combined clearing tools with their sub usage. I stopped any clearing as soon as I saw that. In the end though you have to remember what these clearing methods do. They either "De-program" negative memories/ emotions or they "Program" positive feelings/ beliefs into your mind. Whether its De-programming the negative or programming the positive it still doesn't change the fact that your programming your mind one way or another. And correct me if I'm wrong but I remember Shannon saying something along the lines of don't use other programming with the Subs.

Also, I don't know about anyone else but I spent $500 on a sub to see how "it" works, not how it works in combination with something else. For example, it would be strange for me to spend $500 on a Diet plan then turn around and try to combine it with another opposite diet plan for 6 months. All i'm going to do is get lack luster results or no results at all during those 6 months. Afterwards, I'm going to have to do it over again except for this time only do one diet plan at anyone time. Not trying to pick on anyone who's been using these methods but that's just my opinion on the matter.

(02-11-2015, 08:32 PM)DarthXedonias Wrote: And correct me if I'm wrong but I remember Shannon saying something along the lines of don't use other programming with the Subs.

First of all, I agree with you. Just wanted to add that its not quite that on/off. Not aiming for a comprehensive list here, but one could listen to the subs and:
1. live completely normally/on autopilot
2. set goals and consciously alter your behavior
3. practice mindfulness to notice your emotions and physical feelings, and let the troubling ones go
4. do explicit self-exploration and reorganizing/cleaning, e.g. Byron Katie's Work or other self-therapy method
5. go to a therapist
6. consciously and repeatedly monitor and direct your self-talk with the intention of positive programming, see The power of neuroplasticity
7. Do as in 4., but include specific mental-only releasing methods like the Sedona Method
8. Do as in 4., but include mental+physical releasing methods like tapping or PSTEC
9. Practice self-hypnosis
10. Add other subliminal programming, e.g. use a software to display flashing text on your computer screen
11. Go to a hypnotist

...and then you can of course to these for 1 hour a week or 5 hours a day. I'd set the limit between 6. and 7.

(02-12-2015, 12:51 AM)LionKing Wrote:

(02-11-2015, 08:32 PM)DarthXedonias Wrote: And correct me if I'm wrong but I remember Shannon saying something along the lines of don't use other programming with the Subs.

First of all, I agree with you. Just wanted to add that its not quite that on/off. Not aiming for a comprehensive list here, but one could listen to the subs and:
1. live completely normally/on autopilot
2. set goals and consciously alter your behavior
3. practice mindfulness to notice your emotions and physical feelings, and let the troubling ones go
4. do explicit self-exploration and reorganizing/cleaning, e.g. Byron Katie's Work or other self-therapy method
5. go to a therapist
6. consciously and repeatedly monitor and direct your self-talk with the intention of positive programming, see The power of neuroplasticity
7. Do as in 4., but include specific mental-only releasing methods like the Sedona Method
8. Do as in 4., but include mental+physical releasing methods like tapping or PSTEC
9. Practice self-hypnosis
10. Add other subliminal programming, e.g. use a software to display flashing text on your computer screen
11. Go to a hypnotist

...and then you can of course to these for 1 hour a week or 5 hours a day. I'd set the limit between 6. and 7.

Multiple simultaneous mind programming methods are always a bad idea unless they are specifically designed to be used together.

I do not design my programs to be used with... hypnosis, self hypnosis, PSTEC, NLP, Sedona, etc.

We have had to get very specific in our refund policy because of people being so impatient that they always ignore the instructions, try to use multiple (often contradictory) methods at once, and then get upset with us when it doesn't work.

It is always best to use one mind programming method and one only. Find which one works for you and stick with it, but don't mix them.

If the subliminals bring up resistance and blocks to the forefront.. wouldn't releasing the resistance and blocks speed up growth?

Maybe the subs should contain "Stop being overly impatient" or something like that...