Subliminal Talk

I read some stuff about Ostarine, and came across people saying it might cause cancer? Anyone read about this?

Also, I'm sort of curious about these drugs. I never used steroids in the past. Is it possible to take like a smaller dose of steroids, and just speed up the gains but not hardcore like bodybuilders or something?

*edit* I found this quote in an article I just read: "You can take large dosages and get big, but you can also take smaller dosages and go for that shredded fitness model look. The muscular size you obtain from steroid usage is largely dependent on the dosage and your genetics." The article also says fitness models often take steroids so they can stay very lean all-year round without the negative effects of having very low body-fat all the time.

Is that true? If so, how would I go about starting usage? What's a good one to start with as a 100% steroid newbie? Here's a couple pics, one of me, and one of my goal:


images removed

I just want to be able to reach that goal physique faster. If I take a smaller dosage, can I get to that physique faster, but at the same time avoiding any negative side effects?

Also, once I achieve that goal physique, and I stop taking steroids, will those gains stay?

I also read that testosterone-version of steroids are only usable with injections, is this true?

(04-06-2016, 08:51 PM)dissonance Wrote: [ -> ]I read some stuff about Ostarine, and came across people saying it might cause cancer? Anyone read about this?

I am not a medical professional, so follow this advice at your own risk. This is based off my personal experience. That being said...

There's A LOT of fearmongering out there that's all based in insecurity. People are going to try to instill fear in you to prevent you from self-improvement because it reminds them of how lazy they are.

It's not Ostarine that had the cancer scares, it's Cardarine, which I'm taking now. Neither of which are steroids, but will give you results similar to one. You can't just take either one and sit around -- you'll still have to exercise, HARD. Basically, they'll reduce your recovery time significantly, allowing you to exercise harder and more frequently, while also helping your body synthesize muscle. Cardarine has an emphasis on endurance and fat burning over muscle building, though in my experience, you do heal faster. The endurance factor is absolutely insane. My martial arts workout last night was unbelievable, although I'm paying the price today. BEYOND SORE. I think I overtrained, lol.

Yes, Cardarine MAY HAVE cancer in rats. Rats that were already predisposed to cancer. The cancer was non-fatal stomach polyps. They also gave the rats 4000x the recommended dosage. For a year.

The recommended dosage for Cardarine in humans is 20mg max a day. For it to even become a cancer threat, you'd have to take like... 3000mg a day. For a very long time. And remember -- those same rats are known for getting cancer from like... everything. If I remember correctly, I think they also exposed the rats to carcinogens to help prevent cell apoptosis.

Ostarine's big concern is that it can suppress natural testosterone production, so it's recommended that you run it in 8-week cycles. When I ran it, I did notice some shutdown, so I just bought a proper PCT cycle from Bodybuilding.com or something and I'm all good.

As for your gains, you never really "lose" muscle per se unless you starve yourself. The flab you see on older bodybuilder types is the muscle fibers elongating after non-use. So even when you come off whatever you want to take, you should keep the gains as long as you keep using those muscles.

The good news is, looking at your picture, you most likely can reach that goal in a year or two of heavy lifting and clean eating.

dont forget to always take anti estrogens with steroids otherwise you will get depressiv and emotinal weak, thats why women are weirde because of estrogens

(04-07-2016, 04:32 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-06-2016, 08:51 PM)dissonance Wrote: [ -> ]I read some stuff about Ostarine, and came across people saying it might cause cancer? Anyone read about this?

I am not a medical professional, so follow this advice at your own risk. This is based off my personal experience. That being said...

There's A LOT of fearmongering out there that's all based in insecurity. People are going to try to instill fear in you to prevent you from self-improvement because it reminds them of how lazy they are.

It's not Ostarine that had the cancer scares, it's Cardarine, which I'm taking now. Neither of which are steroids, but will give you results similar to one. You can't just take either one and sit around -- you'll still have to exercise, HARD. Basically, they'll reduce your recovery time significantly, allowing you to exercise harder and more frequently, while also helping your body synthesize muscle. Cardarine has an emphasis on endurance and fat burning over muscle building, though in my experience, you do heal faster. The endurance factor is absolutely insane. My martial arts workout last night was unbelievable, although I'm paying the price today. BEYOND SORE. I think I overtrained, lol.

Yes, Cardarine MAY HAVE cancer in rats. Rats that were already predisposed to cancer. The cancer was non-fatal stomach polyps. They also gave the rats 4000x the recommended dosage. For a year.

The recommended dosage for Cardarine in humans is 20mg max a day. For it to even become a cancer threat, you'd have to take like... 3000mg a day. For a very long time. And remember -- those same rats are known for getting cancer from like... everything. If I remember correctly, I think they also exposed the rats to carcinogens to help prevent cell apoptosis.

Ostarine's big concern is that it can suppress natural testosterone production, so it's recommended that you run it in 8-week cycles. When I ran it, I did notice some shutdown, so I just bought a proper PCT cycle from Bodybuilding.com or something and I'm all good.

As for your gains, you never really "lose" muscle per se unless you starve yourself. The flab you see on older bodybuilder types is the muscle fibers elongating after non-use. So even when you come off whatever you want to take, you should keep the gains as long as you keep using those muscles.

The good news is, looking at your picture, you most likely can reach that goal in a year or two of heavy lifting and clean eating.

Your help is much appreciated. Just to clarify, do you mean a year or two with Ostarine cycling, or a year or two staying natty?

Also, where do you purchase your Ostarine and Cardarine?

(04-07-2016, 09:36 AM)Dzemoo Wrote: [ -> ]dont forget to always take anti estrogens with steroids otherwise you will get depressiv and emotinal weak, thats why women are weirde because of estrogens

Thanks. Is this true with Ostarine/Cardarine as well?

(04-07-2016, 09:51 AM)dissonance Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-07-2016, 09:36 AM)Dzemoo Wrote: [ -> ]dont forget to always take anti estrogens with steroids otherwise you will get depressiv and emotinal weak, thats why women are weirde because of estrogens

Thanks. Is this true with Ostarine/Cardarine as well?

Cardarine, no -- ALLEGEDLY. Ostarine, yes. I experienced slight testosterone shutdown on Ostarine, which feels like what Dzemoo just said. Depressive, weak, whiny. But grab a highly rated PCT (post cycle therapy) from Bodybuilding.com and you'll be ok. I have friends that do a PCT after eight weeks of heavy exercise -- it's just good for the body.

Ostarine, I do eight weeks on, eight weeks off. Some people push it to sixteen. I experienced shutdown when I tried fourteen.

Cardarine, I plan on doing until I run out. I'm still in my first week of Cardarine. I will admit, I'm EXTREMELY drained and annoyed today. However, I'm also in my second run of AM6 -- which has been mentally and physically exhausting, AND I busted my ass at the dojo working out last night. So it's probably not the Cardarine, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

I grab my Ostarine / Cardarine from SarmsX.com / isarms.com (same company).

(04-07-2016, 04:05 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-07-2016, 09:51 AM)dissonance Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-07-2016, 09:36 AM)Dzemoo Wrote: [ -> ]dont forget to always take anti estrogens with steroids otherwise you will get depressiv and emotinal weak, thats why women are weirde because of estrogens

Thanks. Is this true with Ostarine/Cardarine as well?

Cardarine, no -- ALLEGEDLY. Ostarine, yes. I experienced slight testosterone shutdown on Ostarine, which feels like what Dzemoo just said. Depressive, weak, whiny. But grab a highly rated PCT (post cycle therapy) from Bodybuilding.com and you'll be ok. I have friends that do a PCT after eight weeks of heavy exercise -- it's just good for the body.

Ostarine, I do eight weeks on, eight weeks off. Some people push it to sixteen. I experienced shutdown when I tried fourteen.

Cardarine, I plan on doing until I run out. I'm still in my first week of Cardarine. I will admit, I'm EXTREMELY drained and annoyed today. However, I'm also in my second run of AM6 -- which has been mentally and physically exhausting, AND I busted my ass at the dojo working out last night. So it's probably not the Cardarine, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

I grab my Ostarine / Cardarine from SarmsX.com / isarms.com (same company).

Oh okay cool, I just found out about SarmsX too and was gonna ask if it's legit. Thanks.

Also, I posted about this in T-nation as well, and people are semi-bashing me, and also saying that Ostarine isn't that effective, and that the T-suppression is not easy to prevent with a PCT.

What are your thoughts? Here is the thread, as well as a quote from the thread:

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/complete-s...n/216225/7


"I'll give you my more complete thoughts on Ostarine, since you seem very interested in it.

First, I've never heard of anyone getting substantial results out of it. It would be WAAAY more popular if it actually worked well.

Second, yes, that's how PCT works. But the PCT process is imperfect. It's usually successful, but it's not always. And that's assuming you actually know what you're doing, rather than following the really terrible advice that's out there. PCT is, without a doubt, the most poorly comprehended aspect out there as far as PEDS are concerned.

But basically, here's what happens. You run an Ostarine cycle, and let's say you actually DO make some iprovements over, say, a 6 week cycle. Then it's time for PCT. So in PCT, you are no longer using the strength drug, and at the same time, your testosterone production sucks. So over the course of the 4-6 week PCT, you may lose all of, if not more than, the gains you made using the drug. That doesn't sound like a good time to me. Does that appeal to you?"

Most of the people at T-Nation and Bodybuilding.com gravitate between zealots for steroids or going completely natural and anything that threatens that status quo is ridiculed. There's hundreds of positive SARMS reviews, they just refuse to admit it. It's like going to a self-help forum and mentioning IML and subliminals. You'll get a bunch of people that haven't actually tried them complaining.

However, they're completely right that you shouldn't run steroids until you've worked out for a year or two. That being said, Ostarine is a SARM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_..._modulator) not a steroid. Two very different classes of chemical.

I'm not sure why they keep saying you'll lose your gains. YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOUR GAINS. It's scientifically and physically impossible. He's suggesting that when you come off the Ostarine, suddenly the muscles you built are going to just melt away? No -- the gains are permanent, as long as you keep exercising, but the same thing goes along with steroids. Now, you COULD lose that extra pump that was sustaining your workout, but the strength will go nowhere.

Everyone seems to think that steroids automagically turns you into the Incredible Hulk or something. Here's a very basic explanation from LiveScience:

"When we lift weights heavier than what we're used to, we create tiny micro-tears in muscle fibers. The body's natural repair process repairs the tear and then overcompensates by adding bigger cells to build a stronger fiber — this is called muscular hypertrophy. Over time, this repeated process of teardown and re-build will result in muscle growth.

Natural testosterone is the body's main ingredient for this process, but anabolic steroids can serve as a supplement."

Ostarine works in a similar manner without the nasty side effects. There are hundreds of scientific studies on SARMs. They work.

If you're really serious about this, however, I'd recommend doing one of two things (or both):

1. Hiring a personal trainer to develop a fitness and lifting plan for you.
2. Joining an MMA gym. Not just Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but something with Muay Thai. Go look at Muay Thai fighters -- they're generally ripped from the incredible amount of conditioning they have to do. It's also a bit more interesting and dynamic than lifting weights.
3 (BONUS): And if you're gonna try the Ostarine, just try it. I'd workout without it first though so you can get a baseline. That's how I know Cardarine works for a fact.

(04-08-2016, 06:17 AM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of the people at T-Nation and Bodybuilding.com gravitate between zealots for steroids or going completely natural and anything that threatens that status quo is ridiculed. There's hundreds of positive SARMS reviews, they just refuse to admit it. It's like going to a self-help forum and mentioning IML and subliminals. You'll get a bunch of people that haven't actually tried them complaining.

However, they're completely right that you shouldn't run steroids until you've worked out for a year or two. That being said, Ostarine is a SARM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_..._modulator) not a steroid. Two very different classes of chemical.

I'm not sure why they keep saying you'll lose your gains. YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOUR GAINS. It's scientifically and physically impossible. He's suggesting that when you come off the Ostarine, suddenly the muscles you built are going to just melt away? No -- the gains are permanent, as long as you keep exercising, but the same thing goes along with steroids. Now, you COULD lose that extra pump that was sustaining your workout, but the strength will go nowhere.

Everyone seems to think that steroids automagically turns you into the Incredible Hulk or something. Here's a very basic explanation from LiveScience:

"When we lift weights heavier than what we're used to, we create tiny micro-tears in muscle fibers. The body's natural repair process repairs the tear and then overcompensates by adding bigger cells to build a stronger fiber — this is called muscular hypertrophy. Over time, this repeated process of teardown and re-build will result in muscle growth.

Natural testosterone is the body's main ingredient for this process, but anabolic steroids can serve as a supplement."

Ostarine works in a similar manner without the nasty side effects. There are hundreds of scientific studies on SARMs. They work.

If you're really serious about this, however, I'd recommend doing one of two things (or both):

1. Hiring a personal trainer to develop a fitness and lifting plan for you.
2. Joining an MMA gym. Not just Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but something with Muay Thai. Go look at Muay Thai fighters -- they're generally ripped from the incredible amount of conditioning they have to do. It's also a bit more interesting and dynamic than lifting weights.
3 (BONUS): And if you're gonna try the Ostarine, just try it. I'd workout without it first though so you can get a baseline. That's how I know Cardarine works for a fact.

Ahh okay, great to know. Yeah, I got the vibe they were a bit biased as well. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely consider them. Right now, I still have anxieties that would prevent me from getting the most out of such a venture as joining an MMA gym, but once I overcome them, it sounds like it could be a really great outlet for myself.

Oh and about that stuff he said about the PCT, is that true? What's a good PCT that you recommend that is good for Ostarine? I think I'm gonna do 6 or 8 week cycles so that I don't have too much suppression. Also, what's a good dosage for me starting out? I have about 8 months of concrete workout experience (total; not continuously, so I lost some size/strength in breaks). And how do you "measure" the dosage? The products on Sarmsx look like they're all in droppers? How do I measure accurately such specific mg dosages for the Ostarine?

Remember -- I am not a doctor or medical professional, I'm only going off personal experience, so use at your own risk.

I don't use the dropper that comes with it because it was unmarked. I went to Amazon and bought a medication syringe that has measurements in ml -- http://amzn.to/1PZeGWv. Their Ostarine is 50/mg per ml and you'll want to take about 25mg, so you'll take 1/2 ml.

As for the PCT, you usually need prescription drugs... but SarmsX has them in liquid format. It's LiquiClo (Clomid), LiquiAro (Aromasin) and LiquidNol (Nolvadex). Can get a little expensive, but it's worth it.

Remember, only go through all this trouble if you're going to workout everyday, regularly and hard. The biggest benefit to Ostarine is the recomp speed -- workouts that normally would take me 3 days to heal only takes one, and I workout full body, crossfit circuit style. If you're not going to workout hard, there's no use. Just go with something like L-Glutamine to give you a slight edge and a pre-workout mixture to give you extra pumps.

(04-08-2016, 01:41 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]Remember -- I am not a doctor or medical professional, I'm only going off personal experience, so use at your own risk.

I don't use the dropper that comes with it because it was unmarked. I went to Amazon and bought a medication syringe that has measurements in ml -- http://amzn.to/1PZeGWv. Their Ostarine is 50/mg per ml and you'll want to take about 25mg, so you'll take 1/2 ml.

As for the PCT, you usually need prescription drugs... but SarmsX has them in liquid format. It's LiquiClo (Clomid), LiquiAro (Aromasin) and LiquidNol (Nolvadex). Can get a little expensive, but it's worth it.

Remember, only go through all this trouble if you're going to workout everyday, regularly and hard. The biggest benefit to Ostarine is the recomp speed -- workouts that normally would take me 3 days to heal only takes one, and I workout full body, crossfit circuit style. If you're not going to workout hard, there's no use. Just go with something like L-Glutamine to give you a slight edge and a pre-workout mixture to give you extra pumps.

So you need all 3 of those PCTs after a Ostarine cycle? Also, you know the thing where if you work out too long, and you start becoming catabolic, cortisol, etc, and risk of overtraining... does Ostarine prevent that?

You don't HAVE to do it, but I'd recommend it. And I doubt you have to worry about overtraining. The amount of exercise it takes to induce central nervous system shutdown is generally beyond the level of most people.

What also works as an alternative to steroids are xenoandrogens, they have like 60 percent of steroids effectiveness

(04-08-2016, 06:08 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]You don't HAVE to do it, but I'd recommend it. And I doubt you have to worry about overtraining. The amount of exercise it takes to induce central nervous system shutdown is generally beyond the level of most people.

So just to clarify, is eating the same caloric surplus recommended as I am right now? (which is 15%; 2600 surplus for a 2200 maintenance)

And would combining the two increase the test suppression? Either way, I'm wondering do people take some test boosters during the cycle to preemptively respond to that or no?

Also, if I do Osta and Carda in different cycles, do I need to have time off after finishing a Osta cycle before starting Carda?