Subliminal Talk

Heya everyone!

I’m almost at the end of Stage 3 SM2.0 64 Day run and I notice that I seem to have more trouble again with approaching Women then in Stage 2.

During Stage 2 I approached around 60 Women.
During Stage 3 it’s about 10.

I'm not sure if the change is due to the different Stage or of the many misses of those earlier approaches. Also it feels like I’m more attached to the Opinion of others again which holds me back unlike in stage 2.

Currently I’m following this approach:

I look around daytime for a girl I find physical beautiful. This could be in the Mall, at the Train station or somewhere close to my University.
If she is alone and standing still, I try to calmly get close to her and stand next to her facing the same direction. Shortly after I tap her on the Arm and say “Hi my name is Sebastian and I find you beautiful and wanted to get to know you *shows hand for handshake*

Around 80% of the time her answer is either she is taken or has no interest or is simply rude – no harm taken if that is the case I respect her answer and say good bye. I don’t even feel any negativity or an increase in the heart beating rate. I notice this difference a lot since SM.

In case she does take my hand and tells me her name I try to get to know her a little bit, but I’m probably asking the wrong questions due to fear and the conversation quickly dies down. I try to get to know her a bit about what she is studying / doing as work and then trying to move into hobbies. I can’t really notice the fear physically, because I’m sure SM and AM already worked on it and it feels like I’m not feeling anything at all while talking to them. But it’s still like I’m inhibited. Eventually when the conversation died down I usually say good bye and was nice meeting her.

I should also try to probably lead the conversation into more interesting topics maybe tell her things that are really important to me or find out about the things that are important to her. I’ll try to do this the next time I get a positive response.

I’ve also tried using the PSEv1 since you can use that in combination with SM. And tried to make the girls more open with it and help me with the conversation, but due to the long exposure time amount it’s difficult to accomplish much.

How do you guys go about approaching girls? Do you have any tips or idea’s I should maybe try out? Or maybe a good story that would help me?

Ok well first up, don't be nervous just walking up to them. That might be easier said than done, but seriously - get to know a few girls first, and hang out with them, like they're people.

(02-07-2013, 01:14 PM)ChaChaCha Wrote: [ -> ]If she is alone and standing still, I try to calmly get close to her and stand next to her

Don't think of them as walking tits - think of them as people. Perhaps to help ease your nerves a bit, try making some friends of girls, without any intention of hooking up with them. Just to help get yourself used to being around chicks. When you have a few female friends who you can hold a normal conversation with without feeling nervous, then go try chatting girls up - they don't need to be your new friends either.

I'm married now, but when I was single I had some girls I didn't know come up to me and nervously try to make conversation - I regarded them as if they were highschoolers, I had no interest at all. However the woman who became my wife, I knew her as a friend for about a year before we got together and we chatted about all sorts of things - before she very clearly and blatantly made a move to get what she wanted.

(02-07-2013, 02:43 PM)brad1984mason Wrote: [ -> ]Ok well first up, don't be nervous just walking up to them. That might be easier said than done, but seriously - get to know a few girls first, and hang out with them, like they're people.

(02-07-2013, 01:14 PM)ChaChaCha Wrote: [ -> ]If she is alone and standing still, I try to calmly get close to her and stand next to her

Don't think of them as walking tits - think of them as people. Perhaps to help ease your nerves a bit, try making some friends of girls, without any intention of hooking up with them. Just to help get yourself used to being around chicks. When you have a few female friends who you can hold a normal conversation with without feeling nervous, then go try chatting girls up - they don't need to be your new friends either.

I'm married now, but when I was single I had some girls I didn't know come up to me and nervously try to make conversation - I regarded them as if they were highschoolers, I had no interest at all. However the woman who became my wife, I knew her as a friend for about a year before we got together and we chatted about all sorts of things - before she very clearly and blatantly made a move to get what she wanted.

Hey Brad,
thanks for taking the time to respond to the thread.

The problem isn’t that I can’t talk to girls in general or that I see them as walking tits. After all I approach them to find out if its mutual and we enjoy each other’s company.

The problem for me lies more in that very first conversation where you don’t have any knowledge what so ever about the girl and you are physically attracted to her.

And in case you fail on that first conversation it’s basically over with that girl.

I think I really need to work more on leading the conversation, because I’m losing out on those girls that actually are interested. I'll prolly practice this abit on the girls i know like you mentiond.

Yeah its good. Just spend more time with girls, even without trying to hook up.

(I didn't mean to offend or patronise by the way!)

Personally, I think your approach is bad. I would never walk up to a woman and tell her I think she's beautiful and that I want to get to know her better. I would say you're being too forward and trying too hard.

Stop thinking of women as "them". Do you have trouble making friends with guys? Talking to guys? Starting conversations with, joking around with, hanging out with guys? If you don't have trouble with these things with guys, you shouldn't have them concerning women, either. Male or female, people are people.

From my experience, what your approach is saying to a woman is, "Hi, I'm inexperienced and awkward concerning women, and I'm too interested, and you should immediately conclude that I'm not for you." It's because your approach is not smooth, does not flow, and is not comfortable socially.

She is just a woman. She is just a person. She is just a human. There is nothing about her that makes her special... she's just like you, only she's of the opposite gender. When you let go of your desperation, you won't be expressing it anymore, and she won't be sensing it anymore, and when that happens, you'll be free to treat her just like you would treat anyone else.

In fact a lot of the "naturals" I know advise that you should treat a woman you're interested in like your little sister.

When I become aware of a woman I notice as being of interest, the first thing I do is the same thing she does concerning me. Can you guess what that is? It sure as hell isn't to walk over and tell me she thinks I'm handsome, and that she wants to get to know me better. What a woman always does first is observe. She'll look you over and make a series of key judgements about you within the first few seconds she is aware of you. Those judgements lead her to accept or reject your advances.

So I observe her. I observe what her physical features are, I observe what her body language is telling me, I observe what her sense of self valuation is, I observe any indications of taken-ness... and I determine whether she is worth my time to proceed with.

If I do not see any obvious reasons not to continue, I then start determining how to proceed with this particular female. Body type will reveal a lot about that, if you can read it, as will face reading, voice reading and more body language reading. Also consider the circumstances.

My style isn't to approach, but to enjoy the company of. Where I live, single women are apparently mythically rare... so I assume she's involved, and just enjoy talking with her. No expectations, no pressure, just having fun talking.

Kill that expectation and neediness, and it just flows. But I also don't have any particular worries about having anything to say. Sometimes I just sit there and eat. Sometimes I talk. Usually I will make a comment that amuses me, and perhaps amuses her also. But I never presume she is available, interested or that she wants me to do anything more than talk conversationally.

This lack of pressure makes it much easier to relax and enjoy her company, and in most cases, for her to enjoy yours as well. From there, you can take it further, but don't try to meet women where you don't have plenty of time to do so. That just creates awkward situations.

I typically spend some time observing a woman over a few encounters before I will say anything. That gives me time to consider all the face/body type/voice reading and her attitude. Determine how to proceed. Lets her observe me and conclude I am not a freak. Allows us to get used to eachother. Obviously, I'm no pickup artist. Not everyone will be happy with my style. And there are times when I make a move right away. When I see a woman who stuns me, and I know I have a very short amount of time to make a move, I do what it takes.

The key, though, is to be normal and natural. She gets approached a hundred times a day. Men stare at her lustfully all day every day. Be comfortable for her to be around, enjoyable if you can. Let her conclude you're not a threat, or a freak, and that you're worth getting to know in return.

Don't shake her hand. That is too formal and distancing if you're trying to establish a rapid connection. Shaking her hand is a good way to indicate disinterest. Don't compliment her. Don't tell her she's beautiful. Don't come out with that you'd like to get to know her better before you've talked for a little while at least. Let her make a first impression of you that doesn't say "desperate", "freak" or "run". Then proceed.

Learn body language, and use it. She will tell you everything you need to know with it.

Learn to read body types, faces, voices.

Find something interesting to do as a hobby that you can talk about, that will interest her. Key words: interest her.

Then, go where the type of women you want to meet go. And talk to them. You don't necessarily have to be very direct in your approach. You don't even always have to approach. In fact the less it seems to her that you are "approaching her" in that way, the better. A casual comment about the book she's looking at in the book store... a comment about her hair (again, not a compliment)... some feature she has (not tits, ass, or anything you know other guys will have commented on six billion times already) that intrigues you in some way.

Be original. Make eye contact. Smile. Introduce yourself confidently. DON'T shake her hand. That should give you enough to get started with.

Exactly what Shannon said, just talk to them like people/friends than anything. Not that you want to take them out or get to know them to date. And also, stop going out with purpose to approach women. They will also approach you, you know...when you're not desperately seeking it. Anytime a woman gets close to you in any form, you assume she is approaching you, then talk or let her talk to you, not so hard. I say go out with the intention, I'm happy with myself and I have my own busy, high-quality lifestyle and whoever happens to come your way, you can get to know them if you'd like, perhaps show them a small taste of your life...or completely keep them out. Up to you.

I find parties are a good way to meet women...in social circles...or settings with others you already know. Because even if you had a connection and didn't end up getting them to take your number. If you had a connection with them (they showed significant signs) you can add them on FB through friends and they will come to you.

When you're alone with a woman, the words don't even fucking matter. A lot of women I just met I would know it's ok to do things because...well...they want to be alone with me! So I skip the bullshit and will start touching and cuddling them without hardly even knowing or saying anything to them. Like already being with them. Then it leads further on.

I really want to have my own place shortly...I'd love to try Brent Smith's idea, it's a great way to bring women to you. Simply get your closest friends & Facebook friends put them into a party group if you've hung out with them...or if they like to party. Throw parties all the time, invite this large list of friends / women, tell them to invite their friends. At the party you will always be VIP and everyone will want to be around you. Meet the new guests, then add them to Facebook and the list. Throw next party, rinse & repeat.

Ryan

Hey ChaChaCha
first off, its awesome that your brave enough to try what your doing.
Like the other guys said, the problem is your coming from the wrong paradigm.
Your approach unconsciously sends the signal that you don't know what your doing, which in my opinion is actually fine and can be quite endearing but not if
your trying to gloss over it or hide it by being bold.
Plus your putting way to much pressure on them, and yourself for that matter, way to quickly.
Your doing sex magnet, and I've never done 2.0 but in 1.0 I transitioned from approach machine to doing almost nothing except meeting woman very naturally and having them approach me. So that may be why your approach numbers are dying down.
The greatest thing about meeting woman is that its a litmus test for 'how your being in the moment' and in your life in general. Sure sex with hot woman is great but more importantly to be the kind of man you want to be with woman you have to be the kind of man you want to be in life.
Even the most hot, sexually desirable-high value cool ass dude can't bust out of the blue and just do anything. Its all about noticing woman, their reality, authentically appreciating it, and your desire for them at the same time, and meeting them there. Be congruent, act whatever you feel, say whats on your mind, like you would a good friend, the more you speak your truth and don't hide where your at, the more fun you'll have, which is very attractive, the more comfortable you'll start to feel, which is very attractive, the more woman will actually be given the chance to connect to something with you that's real and trust me its not hard talking to someone about something you both actually relate to. Also the more congruent you'll be, which is ultimately what makes woman trust you, because woman can sense lack of congruence like a shark smells blood in the water.
Like Ryan said DEFINITELY do not go out with the intention to pick up chicks..its just way to easy to become a leering wolf this way lol.
Ask yourself, what would the most badass, loving, sexually abundant, living the life of his dreams CHaCHa do? Would he go out to a mall to intentionally meet chicks? Probably not. He might go out to the mall to pick up some new clothes or a book he is pyshced about and then have a blast meeting woman while he is trying on new clothes or checking out new reads.
Ryan's also dead on with the words not mattering. But you have to get to that point..don't worry if you keep doing what your doing you'll learn..you'll turn a corner and just get it..and never go back. Short of personal breakthroughs and epiphanies though it takes practice. The more you love yourself, your life, and woman unconditionally the easier it will be but woman won't jump on your dick cause your life's awesome..it takes relating to woman, and talking to woman, and that can take some getting used to with woman you just met. Talking to strangers and bringing them into your life is a bit of an art form..internally and externally. So stay easy on yourself-here's some stuff that might help.
You need to move from trying to sell yourself/ make things work, to just having fun with it and being inherently a qualifier. First things first, make standards for yourself-define EXACTLY what kind of woman you like behaviorally and physically, energetically etc. I suggest integrity be one of those standards. Also define why you want to meet woman...if its to work on your game-they can sense that and it inherently feels there being used or at the least the interaction feels flat and forced. Woman want to feel your presence, your solidity, your freedom of expression, your comfort with yourself and even your desire, your humor, they like to know you don't take them, or yourself, too seriously, (unless your in a relationship of course) Don't worry about 'pick up' or 'game' from now on you 'ARE GAME'. So its a mute issue. Its all about how your being and nothing to do with what your doing. You run out of things to say because your saying things FOR them, your TRYING to make something work, say stuff for you. Because you want to express, to share, you want to know about her.Like Morpheus said in the matrix-stop trying to hit me and hit me. Stop trying to talk to woman and actually TALK to woman. I'm sure that doesn't help lol
here's a quick list of what might..
1. Define what you want in woman you meet, what you will accept and not accept. Its your life, your world, your reality, your standards, you are the power, the king. (People who are like this, who feel really good about themselves inherently and know their worth, are really cool and fun to hang with, they might demand respect but their also extremely generative)
2. Define why your meeting woman in the first place. Not because your working on game. Your a great guy who loves woman, you love talking to woman, its fun, you might be interested you might not. Find out if she is actually someone you want in your life, like really, how would you talk to a woman if you knew she already liked you and you were trying to find out if you wanted to spend more time with her. Everything she does-means she likes you- calibrate a bit. let her come to you. Your the music..this is what you do..this is who you are..and she's responding to that. Be challenging in a fun way.
3. Go out to do YOUR thing and meet woman as you go along. To approach-observe their reality and make a comment on it. That's it-that simple. Ex: At the mall, She takes a bite of a pretzel and it looks really good-u-joking "Wow..I've never seen anyone look so happy about a pretzel". She's eating a pretzel but the line at the pretzel shop is really long "I was thinking of stealing your pretzel since I really don't feel like waiting on line." etc. etc. just pretend you already know her. At the station "man these trains take forever"/ "can't believe the train came so quickly". Woman might be a little reserved at first-show that your aware but her reactions don't phase you. Whatever she says-
4. Actually listen-her words will tell you everything-even "yeah the pretzel is good"--u"yea... I know a pretzel addict when I see em..U know what else is awesome-have you tried blah blah blah"/ her- "Yeah its the best thing I've had all day" u--"must be a pretty lame day" -her "no actually.." then she tells you about her awesome day or "yea, " then she opens up about a bad day...get her talking more then you. Leave space for her to fill it when appropriate. Its the most normal thing in the world to you. If you stall or blow out-make fun of yourself-"man, I never get the girl" "UH OH-your making me draw a blank.."do you always tongue tie all the guys you talk to". Only people who are comfortable with themselves can do this.
5. You never run out of things to say when you trust yourself and lead-focus on relaxing and enjoying the interaction..if you find yourself having trouble-just use any word she says as a jumping off point---"I just walked past the coolest store"-walking---coolest---stores---you can talk about any of those things--"I love just walking and seeing the crazy sh--t in windows" "the coolest thing"---"I was at this store blah blah"---"what was so cool about it...?" "why would you just walk past it...you gotta get in there". This are semi-retarded statements but the idea is that is doesn't matter if your just flowing with the interaction. Attraction happens or it doesn't...the rest is you just leading her where she wants to go anyway and having fun doing it.
6.. Your the qualifier but your also engaging, non-needy, giving her space, something fun and exciting in her normal day. Your not going uphill-your interaction is an extension of your good mood..your mojo, your social, and ultimately sexual, freedom in life. If you don't have mojo or a good mood-do something you love to get that before you talk to random woman in the day..or find something to get excited about.
7.. attraction=she is equally or more invested in the interaction then you. This comes from not trying to 'get' anything out of the interaction. No expectations, its just a dance-just keep leading--keep giving...you want to ask her something-ask it..you want to talk about something--talk about it...if she obviously likes you make plans and exchange info...later on you can start stating your intention- or how she makes you feel ..say it...especially at nightlife-when they already have assumptions about why your talking to them.
8. After things are in a groove.. Imagine your going to be/ already are f-cking and/or cuddling with them-while your talking..just a little bit and start relating from there. This takes some practice/getting used to but is so much fun.

Try going out to do something you like and instead of approaching just observe. Feel your body, how she makes you feel, what are you thinking? Can you get curious about her? What do you want to know about her? What can You observe about her reality? Where she is at. What can you appreciate about her?
Does her energy/presence throw you off center..? Can you breathe into that and relax?
who would you be... how would you feel... what would you do if you never had to worry about 'getting good with woman' again?

I was at McDonald's just yesterday, and there were two women and a man behind the counter. The man was serving me, but both women were giving me the green light, huge smiles, going out of their way to help, etc. I looked to my left and saw a display with a bunch of plastic pretzels in it, so I looked the guy dead in the eye and said, "So, how many of these plastic pretzels do you sell?"

Now mind you, I was saying this to the guy, and intentionally ignoring the women. He cracked up, and so did they. I said it to him partly because he was serving me, and partly because the less you drool over a woman, the more she will want you. Not that either of them was drool worthy, but the point stands.

It's fun, and funny. I said it because it made me laugh as much as because it made them laugh. I said it in the right way to make it funny. And by the time I left, they (the females) were very obviously seeking any excuse to talk to me.

It doesn't take much. Be silly. Be funny. Make yourself laugh as much as them. Have fun with it. Be ridiculous. Making her feel good and have a good time will naturally make her want to be around you - just like you would naturally want to be around a woman who made you feel good and have a good time.

I remember during my first run-through of SM I slowly shifted from getting fed up approaching and 'trying' to actually laying back and watching all of the things I wanted fall on my lap. Now I did go out...a lot of it was online dating because I honestly didn't have the finances to go out a lot. And I was getting women messaging me through LoA and even on FB old girls popped up wanting to get together. With the mindset SM gave me it also made women want me instantly, unlike during my first run-through of AM, it was a bit harder for me to attract them.

However, towards the end of SM 1 I began shifting to this new mindset of being pursed. I struggled a lot with "should I talk to her...or wait" and I had many times I got a little desperate in the process and would still pursue. But at stage 6, I had it overwhelming and women, hot women, were pursuing me without me doing a thing. I just had to say yes or no and I was getting fucked.

It's a slow shift but I think being pursued is the ultimate lifestyle which is why I wanted Shannon to put it into AM 5...hopefully when he does a new one...he will put that focus in there

Ryan

Thanks for all the great responses Guys!

From the reading I conclude that I'll definitely drop my current approach.

I’ll try to be more laid back and see if I can really start to relate to just the feeling I get from them and the one I give off.

I’ll also try to drop the outcome dependency and stop going out just to approach women.

Let’s see if I can slip into that lifestyle of just going out, doing what I want and end up connecting with women

Exactly. Just have fun with yourself!

Some fantastic points and advice here! Awesome posts Shannon, Ryan and Rainbowabyss!

(02-08-2013, 04:01 PM)Ryan Wrote: [ -> ]I remember during my first run-through of SM I slowly shifted from getting fed up approaching and 'trying' to actually laying back and watching all of the things I wanted fall on my lap. Now I did go out...a lot of it was online dating because I honestly didn't have the finances to go out a lot. And I was getting women messaging me through LoA and even on FB old girls popped up wanting to get together. With the mindset SM gave me it also made women want me instantly, unlike during my first run-through of AM, it was a bit harder for me to attract them.

However, towards the end of SM 1 I began shifting to this new mindset of being pursed. I struggled a lot with "should I talk to her...or wait" and I had many times I got a little desperate in the process and would still pursue. But at stage 6, I had it overwhelming and women, hot women, were pursuing me without me doing a thing. I just had to say yes or no and I was getting *****.

It's a slow shift but I think being pursued is the ultimate lifestyle which is why I wanted Shannon to put it into AM 5...hopefully when he does a new one...he will put that focus in there

Ryan

That's funny, I've always found that being pursued is a natural consequence of the AM set. Whenever I do AM, I don't really have the desire to seek out women in any way and tend to blow them off quite a bit. Well if a woman initially saw something she wanted to begin with in you then that's a major problem for her psyche to reconcile.

I've found that guys who are really good with women can do whatever is needed to make it happen, whether approaching or attracting, and often it's both. When I say "guys who are really good," I mean guys who have been doing it their whole life, as opposed to PUAs who have learned a particular method. I have personally known three guys like this. Their personalities and fashion sense are totally different, but they all share the ability and flexibility to do what's needed in every situation, because every situation is different. I, unfortunately, am not one of these guys.

One of those guys is Cory Skyy. The other two guys are unknown to the public, but every bit as good. Cory mastered approaching before he got into attracting women. He still approaches women when needed, but he doesn't talk about that aspect of his game because he separated himself from the rest of the "community" by marketing himself as teaching guys how to attract women so he usually doesn't stray from talking about that.

I only bring this up because I notice how a lot of guys will argue that one way is better than another.

I once watched one of them (not Cory) seduce an absolutely beautiful, yet icy, female friend of mine, while at the same time charming the hell out of me. The latter is not easy to do. I can smell BS from a mile away.

When the whole thing was done I thought, "I just witnessed a master." I've seen a lot of confident idiots and jock types in my day but this guy was on a totally different level. In fact my friends didn't even know what happened. That's how good he was. I honestly had to love the guy. I just couldn't be angry with him because he did absolutely nothing to block me, get in my way, make me look bad, or try to look superior. In fact he made me feel great.