Subliminal Talk

If you don't eat breakfast, you are like a steam train without any coal in your firebox. You are not going to get up the hill very easily.

(08-14-2013, 04:06 AM)Joronda Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't eat breakfast, you are like a steam train without any coal in your firebox. You are not going to get up the hill very easily.

I didn't agree with that. The thing is we are programmed that breakfast is the most important meal in a day, but the truth is not. I just found out about this when I learn about intermittent fasting, mostly from the book called Eat STOP Eat by Brad Pilon. And I say that book is worth reading.


Edo

Cardio in the morning also increases metabolism and provides energy to help you get over those obstacles.

Thanks

Fonzy

If you eat plenty in the mornings, your blood sugar does not get too low and make you tired out. If you do get tired, you will be very hungry at night - and eat too much before you go to bed.

I.F. with a workout at the tail end, really sheds the fat-at least for me. It is at first difficult to fast, but after awhile you grow accustom, become more productive and really enjoy when you do eat and drink.

(08-14-2013, 05:29 PM)Edo Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't agree with that. The thing is we are programmed that breakfast is the most important meal in a day, but the truth is not. I just found out about this when I learn about intermittent fasting, mostly from the book called Eat STOP Eat by Brad Pilon. And I say that book is worth reading.

Edo

What studies show this is true and under what conditions? What does he (or you) offer as evidence to disprove the studies that show contrary?

The problem is the author is battling a lot of studies, and admittedly i don't have time to read his book so I'm hoping you can help me out with where he's coming from...here's a quote that has probably contributed a lot to the meal skipping (specifically breakfast) theories:

Quote:Skipping breakfast was associated with a significantly higher risk of obesity. Subjects who regularly skipped breakfast (i.e., 75 percent of days measured by 24-hour recall) had 4.5 times the risk of obesity as those who regularly consumed breakfast (95 percent CI: 1.57, 12.90).

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/158/1/85.full

I haven't looked into it enough to know how legit the study is, just using this as an example of why it's assumed by a lot of people and dieticians readily recommend not skipping meals (although if you read the article, right afterwards it shows that if you eat OUT for breakfast-think greasy american breakfast food, that is associated with higher risk...)

I'm not saying you or him are wrong, just am curious if you have some evidence I have not found or if there's more to his story. My personal opinion I have formed from both unprofessional and scholarly research you may find curious...my conclusion is that fasting when combined with natural caffeine sources and/or suppressants (most indigenous peoples used caffeine for fasting-and I don't mean synthetic I mean: Yerba Mate, Guayusa, tea leaves, cocoa, coffee beans, guarana...etc etc) offers incredible results. However when not combined with (natural in its original form) caffeine, or really any other substance that can naturally suppress appetite and keep blood sugar balanced...doing things like skipping breakfast is a disaster for which I have personally analyzed blood sugar, insulin, and seen mountains and mountains of evidence for.

I keep emphasizing natural caffeine and/or appetite suppressants because in their original forms they have much more than just caffeine or "one substance" that contribute to the successful end result...such as l-theanine, theobromine, antioxidants, etc... It's not that it can't be done synthetically as it has (hydroxycut...ephedrine, etc) but that I find whether it works is a gamble, and I find their short term side effects and/or long term consequences unacceptable.

So funny enough I've used both.

No breakfast, often even no lunch and small dinner for "extreme" weight-loss (of interest to me as a bodybuilder). Except it's paired with natural caffeine as both a blood sugar stabilizer and appetite suppressant. Any attempts at substituting synthetic caffeine sources, or doing this without have resulted in failure and temporary ill health. I always closely monitor blood sugar levels, and with caffeine (I use Guayasa or Guarana, my body tolerates these the best with least side effects... for example green tea and yerba mate both give me bad side effects) my blood sugar levels are better than when I'm on a standard calorie restricted diet (anything greater than about 300 less in a day). So I dare say it is BETTER for "extreme/fast" weight loss (attempt at own risk...). Yes, even with or without exercise. My best results where I've conserved the most muscle, is where I only did light cardio or an hour several times a week. Lifting weights or doing sprints was dangerous and/or easily caused "crashes" because when the body is burning fat the conversion is too slow to supply anything with intensity for more than a few minutes and the body expects that the intensity had a payoff and it will have all the building blocks it needs to rebuild (did you use that intensity to catch that animal?)

Now eating breakfast, I've used for mostly slow and steady weight loss and maintaining weight. This is still the standard I recommend for most people wanting to lose weight. Usually it's as simple as cleaning out their kitchens, changing where they eat out and what they order, and switching all their foods with healthy alternatives and a year later they are their ideal weight. Breakfast being an important part of this to maintain blood sugar levels out of the danger zone (where the body slows metabolism and prioritizes incoming food to adding and conserving fat...of which there is mountains of evidence for)

Andrew


I really want to post about what is Brad Pilon research about skipping breakfast; I'm afraid it will against the copy wright. I'll only post about it from leangains.com

Quote:Myth: Skipping breakfast is bad and will make you fat.


Truth

Breakfast skipping is associated with higher body weights in the population. The explanation is similar to that of lower meal frequencies and higher body weights. Breakfast skippers have dysregulated eating habits and show a higher disregard for health. People who skip breakfast are also more likely to be dieting, thus by default they are also likely to be heavier than non-dieters. Keep in mind that most people who resort to breakfast skipping are not the type that sit around and read about nutrition. They are like most people dieting in a haphazard manner. The type to go on a 800 calorie-crash diet and then rebound, gaining all the weight (and then some) back.

Sometimes, an argument is made for eating breakfast as we are more insulin sensitive in the morning. This is true; you are always more insulin sensitive after an overnight fast. Or rather, you are always the most insulin sensitive during the first meal of the day. Insulin sensitivity is increased after glycogen depletion. If you haven't eaten in 8-10 hours, liver glycogen is modestly depleted. This is what increases insulin sensitivity - not some magical time period during the morning hours. Same thing with weight training. Insulin sensitivity is increased as long as muscle glycogen stores aren't full. It doesn't disappear if you omit carbs after your workout.

Origin

First of all, we have the large scale epidemiological studies showing an association with breakfast skipping and higher body weights in the population. One researcher from that study, commenting on the association with breakfast skipping or food choices for breakfast, said:

"These groups appear to represent people 'on the run,' eating only candy or soda, or grabbing a glass of milk or a piece of cheese. Their higher BMI would appear to
support the notion that 'dysregulated' eating patterns are associated with obesity, instead of or in addition to total energy intake per se."

Kellogg's and clueless RDs love to cite them over and over again, so people are lead to believe that breakfast has unique metabolic and health-related benefits. In reality, these studies just show breakfast eaters maintain better dietary habits overall.

Other studies frequently cited claiming that breakfast is beneficial for insulin sensitivity are all marred with methodological flaws and largely uncontrolled in design.

In one widely cited study, subjects were entrusted to eat most meals in free-living conditions. The breakfast skipping group ate more and gained weight, which affected health parameters negatively.

From the abstract: "Reported energy intake was significantly lower in the EB period (P=0.001), and resting energy expenditure did not differ significantly between the 2 periods." EB = eating breakfast. In essence, people who ate breakfast could control their energy intake better for the rest of the day. They didn't gain any weight but the breakfast skipping group did. Fat gain always affects insulin sensitivity and other health parameters negatively. Thus what people took this to mean is that breakfast is healthy and improves insulin sensitivity. Which isn't at all what the study showed.

Quote:Myth: "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch a queen, dinner like a pauper."


Truth

Also connected to this saying, is the belief that you should reduce carbs in the evening as they will be less likely to be stored as fat. While this might sound good on paper, there's nothing to support it and a lot that shows it to be wrong.

The strongest argument against this are the numerous studies available on body composition and health after and during Ramadan fasting. This meal pattern of regular nightly feasts has a neutral or positive effect on body fat percentage and other health parameters. This is quite an extreme and telling example. People literally gorge on carbs and treats in the middle of the night to no ill effect. And yet, in the bizarre world of bodybuilding and fitness, people worry whether it's OK to eat 50 grams of carbs in their last meal.

If the scientific data on Ramadan fasting aren't enough, there are plenty of other studies showing no effect on weight loss or weight gain from eating later in the day.

In one study comparing two meal patterns, which involved one group eating more calories earlier in the day and one group eating most calories later in the day, more favorable results were found in the group eating large evening meals. While those who ate more in the AM lost more weight, the extra weight was in the form of muscle mass. The late evening eaters conserved muscle mass better, which resulted in a larger drop in body fat percentage.

Origin

Just like breakfast skipping is associated with higher body weights in the general population, you will find associations with late night eating and higher body weights. If you have been reading this far, you'll understand the logical fallacy of saying that late night eating must cause weight gain based on such studies. People who engage in late night eating, such as snacking in front of the TV, are likely to weigh more than others. It's not the fact that they are eating later in the day that causes weight gain, it's their lifestyle. No controlled studies show larger evening meals affect body composition negatively in comparison to meals eaten earlier in the day.

Sometimes studies on shift workers are cited to claim that late night eating is bad. These are all uncontrolled (in terms of calorie intake) and observational studies confounded by the fact that shift work has an independent and negative effect on some health parameters like glucose tolerance and blood lipids. Keep this in mind. Context is always relevant.

While I normally don't cite studies on animals, Science Daily featured an article dispelling the late-night eating myth based on findings on rhesus monkeys. It's worth citing since monkeys are metabolically closer to humans than rodents.

I should have written this article post a long time ago. Would have saved me tons of time.

If you found this worthwhile reading, I'd appreciate if you could refer those unlucky people, who have been mislead into believing some of the junk that's out there, to this article. Based on my own and others' experiences, these false beliefs lead many into an obsessive dietary pattern, which can do a lot of harm to your physical and psychological well-being. Let's try to put an end to that and save people from such misery.

EDIT

Quote:ATLANTA — Another reason to eat breakfast: Skipping it may increase your
chances of a heart attack.
A study of older men found those who regularly skipped breakfast had a 27%
higher risk of a heart attack than those who ate a morning meal. There's no
reason why the results wouldn't apply to other people, too, the Harvard
researchers said.
Other studies have suggested a link between breakfast and obesity, high blood
pressure, diabetes and other health problems seen as precursors to heart
problems.
"But no studies looked at long-term risk of heart attack," said Eric Rimm,
one of the study authors at the Harvard School of Public Health.
Why would skipping breakfast be a heart attack risk?
Experts aren't certain, but here's what they think: People who don't eat
breakfast are more likely to be hungrier later in the day and eat larger meals.
Those meals mean the body must process a larger amount of calories in a
shorter amount of time. That can spike sugar levels in the blood and perhaps
lead to clogged arteries.
But is a stack of syrupy pancakes, greasy eggs and lots of bacon really better
than eating nothing?
researchers did not ask what the study participants ate for breakfast, and
were not prepared to pass judgment on whether a fatty, sugary breakfast
is better than no breakfast at all.
Other experts agreed that it's hard to say.
"We don't know whether it's the timing or content of breakfast that's
important. It's probably both," said Andrew Odegaard, a University of
Minnesota researcher who has studied a link between skipping breakfast and
health problems like obesity and high blood pressure.
"Generally, people who eat breakfast tend to eat a healthier diet," he
added.
The new research was released Monday by the journal Circulation. It was
an observational study, so it's not designed to prove a cause and effect.

I think that if you have your last meal at night, then don't eat until morning tea or even later in the day, you could be breaking down heart muscle as well as ordinary muscle and make it easier to have a heart attack.

Low sugar levels can make your brain tired and cranky - and your heart might do funny rhythms from low sugar as well. The heart is an emotional centre, so needs to be fed regularly.

If you eat a lot of bulky, low-calorie food in the mornings, you will use a lot of calories to digest it and push it through the whole digestion system. If you don't eat anything, you probably won't notice... that you are moving slower, talking slower, typing slower, making decisions slower, smiling less, burning less calories an hour, and the number of body cells replaced in the mornings will be less.

Older men have lower fitness and body strength - compared with when they were much younger. This makes it so much easier to overload their heart compared with a much lighter woman when they run for a bus or do something they don't have the fitness for.

Power-to-weight is so important in men. If you don't eat in the mornings, you probably will have less testosterone circulating in your bloodstream, and less "feel-good" endorphins, and production of hormones needed for over-all health.

If you eat plenty of food in the mornings, it should put you in a better mood, wake your body up quicker and you can get a lot of work done. The afternoon will be a breeze emotionally.

The Jury is still out on whether children actually get a sugar rush from a big feed of sweets. They may just be on a huge emotional high from their body getting a full tummy of food.

Child have a genetic urge to eat for survival - and extra sugar may be making the "survival centre" do cartwheels that the food has arrived - celebration of a harvest.

Babies cry to make you feed them (for survival).

People who go to bed too late, may actually wake up tired and still have the vampire hormones (melatonin) not cleared out of their bloodstram enough to feel hungry until later in the morning.

I was taught to go outside immediately I wake up and walk around to get the sun for 20 minutes into my eyes to make the melatonin move out of my bloodstream quicker and get my body temperature up to 39C. Muscles remain stiff and can't be easily stretched until they are up to 39C.

If you warm your body up this way, you will do a lot more work in the mornings that the person who relies on cups of coffee to get through the morning untl his/her appetite kicks in.

There are a lot of office workers who don't wake up properly until 10am - and they are vulnerable to accidents, and arguments with colleagues until they eat enough to get their blood sugar and digestion working in synergy.

You can burn a lot of calories in a day from sitting down only when absolutely necessary - and for as short a time as possible. You actually find all your 206 bones and 529 muscles and the ligaments and tendons get surprisingly strong, and even your back problems improve.

There is a school of thought that office desks should be done away with - and replaced by work stations around the room that keep you standing. Such a move could reduce diabeties and a heap of health problems in society.

(11-07-2013, 11:59 PM)Joronda Wrote: [ -> ]People who go to bed too late, may actually wake up tired and still have the vampire hormones (melatonin) not cleared out of their bloodstram enough to feel hungry until later in the morning.

I was taught to go outside immediately I wake up and walk around to get the sun for 20 minutes into my eyes to make the melatonin move out of my bloodstream quicker and get my body temperature up to 39C. Muscles remain stiff and can't be easily stretched until they are up to 39C.

If you warm your body up this way, you will do a lot more work in the mornings that the person who relies on cups of coffee to get through the morning untl his/her appetite kicks in.

There are a lot of office workers who don't wake up properly until 10am - and they are vulnerable to accidents, and arguments with colleagues until they eat enough to get their blood sugar and digestion working in synergy.

You can burn a lot of calories in a day from sitting down only when absolutely necessary - and for as short a time as possible. You actually find all your 206 bones and 529 muscles and the ligaments and tendons get surprisingly strong, and even your back problems improve.

There is a school of thought that office desks should be done away with - and replaced by work stations around the room that keep you standing. Such a move could reduce diabeties and a heap of health problems in society.

Sunshine is good for Office Workers: I heard the same about Office workers should stand as well and, get outside to get Sunshine; Plus, it brightens up the mood as well