why ogfs?

[Dzemoo]

i wonder why ogfs exists and is more popular than of... since guilt and shame are the results of fear, gulit is the fear of consequences for things you did in the past and shame is the fear of judgment of other poeple, if you eliminate fear you eliminate guilt and shame automatically

[CatMan]

They are separate issues.

It's better to go broad, unless you know for SURE there's an issue with fear, then you go use OF. OGSF has a much broader usability as a result of it's wider focus.

They both have their uses. OGSF is in many programs for a reason. OF is in WM2, before OGSF's interdepency with eachother was discovered then it became normal practise to use OGSF in big programs instead of OF.

[waahbeta]

Guilt= I have done something bad which only I or few know. I feel heartbroken fr doing it. I shouldn't have done it. I could have avoided it.
Shame : I did something which is quite embarrassing which few to many to almost all know. I should have been cautious.
Fear : if I do this, what will others think.
I have done something, what will others think if they come to know I did it. I shouldn't do this. It will affect my reputation. Others will know that I am not as strong, as good, as blah blah, they are.

[Shannon]

Guilt= I have done something bad which only I or few know. I feel heartbroken fr doing it. I shouldn't have done it. I could have avoided it.
Shame : I did something which is quite embarrassing which few to many to almost all know. I should have been cautious.
Fear : if I do this, what will others think.
I have done something, what will others think if they come to know I did it. I shouldn't do this. It will affect my reputation. Others will know that I am not as strong, as good, as blah blah, they are.

You are simplifying too much, and I don't think you really understand these states well by the definitions you give.

[waahbeta]

Guilt= I have done something bad which only I or few know. I feel heartbroken fr doing it. I shouldn't have done it. I could have avoided it.
Shame : I did something which is quite embarrassing which few to many to almost all know. I should have been cautious.
Fear : if I do this, what will others think.
I have done something, what will others think if they come to know I did it. I shouldn't do this. It will affect my reputation. Others will know that I am not as strong, as good, as blah blah, they are.

You are simplifying too much, and I don't think you really understand these states well by the definitions you give.

I guess I just interpreted what it means for me at the moment
Mostly I think it's right and I've been right n just misunderstood cos I used 'blah blah' in it. Cos ' blah blah' is just too childish.
But I'd also like to get it explained/learn from u as m still a noob in front of u.

[Shannon]

[quote='waahbeta' pid='82167' dateline='1440445931']
Guilt= I have done something bad which only I or few know. I feel heartbroken fr doing it. I shouldn't have done it. I could have avoided it.
Shame : I did something which is quite embarrassing which few to many to almost all know. I should have been cautious.
Fear : if I do this, what will others think.
I have done something, what will others think if they come to know I did it. I shouldn't do this. It will affect my reputation. Others will know that I am not as strong, as good, as blah blah, they are.

You are simplifying too much, and I don't think you really understand these states well by the definitions you give.

Let's take a look one at a time.

Guilt= I have done something bad which only I or few know. I feel heartbroken fr doing it. I shouldn't have done it. I could have avoided it.

This really describes regret better than guilt. In my years of studying human awareness, I have encountered a lot of cases where guilt existed without any action on the part of the person feeling it. For example, look at the girl who feels guilty for being female because someone told her that it makes her responsible for all the pain in the world. How about the girl who feels guilty for being female because she is blamed - before she ever has sex - for being a "temtpress of men" by a man who wants to have sex with her, but is himself ashamed of that fact? How about the man who feels guilty for being alive because his brother died beside him in battle, and he couldn't save his brother? How about the mother who feels guilty for the stillbirth of her child when she had nothing to do with it? Or the child who is made to feel guilty for something someone else did, simply because the guilt-er finds it easy to manipulate and control him emotionally and thus physically in this way? What about the gay man who feels guilty because his "best friend" got him drunk and got herself pregnant with him, only to take off with his child and give it up for adoption - and he was too afraid of what would happen to act in time to get his daughter back legally?

Guilt does not need a "reason" to exist. It is an emotion, and is therefore irrational. It can exist because the emotions believe it should exist based on what the person has been taught and how they have been treated.

Shame : I did something which is quite embarrassing which few to many to almost all know. I should have been cautious.

Being ashamed and embarrassed are not the same thing.

Dictionary.com defines shame as "the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another:"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shame gives us this definition:

a feeling of guilt, regret, or sadness that you have because you know you have done something wrong

: ability to feel guilt, regret, or embarrassment (I disagree with them on this, since the ability to feel something is not the feeling of it or anything related to it. That's like saying I am ashamed of myself because I am capable of experiencing the state of guilt, or vice versa.)

: dishonor or disgrace

Shame, as I have come to understand it, is an emotional reaction that is tied to a deep fear of being expelled from some group of people. When one engages in "shameful" behavior, the group will typically cast you out in some way, distrusting you or refusing to talk or accept you. It is a way of feeling bad about oneself emotionally that can be effective as a means of control and limitation for others, as well as an emotional poison. It is closely tied to guilt and fear, but it is not guilt or fear.

Shame can come before or after an action that is associated with it. If the person is sufficiently subjected to the right attitudes, vocal patterns and intonations, and other communication methods, they can learn to feel shame without having done anything to "deserve it". Witness the girl who is ashamed of having a period, who dreads it because she feels that way, before she has ever had one, because her mother taught her that being a girl and having a period is a shameful thing. Or the boy who is ashamed of his body because someone told him that his body was shameful. Or the person who is ashamed of themselves because they were told that they are guilty of someone else's crime and then browbeaten in the right ways. Then there is the woman who does something self indulgent and it is noted by someone who responds to it in ways that cause her to react by feeling shame for that action. And so on.

Fear is a state of apprehension and worry that can be expressed in a variety of ways, and at a variety of levels of obviousness and consciousness. It can be just as pre-emptive and baselessly irrational as the other two. When I was a little boy, I was terrified of the dark, because I could not see what was in it. One day I sat there at the light switch and turned it on and of again and again because I was trying to catch the "monsters" hiding when the light came. It didn't matter that I never saw any; I was still afraid of them. Had I ever seen any of them before? No. Did I have any reason to believe they even existed? No. But I was nevertheless terrified of them.

To see fear, you have but to look around you. It drives almost everything we do that is not driven by the desire to reproduce or eat. It may be very subtle, and the reason may be deeply buried, but it's there.

[waahbeta]

Wow. That was so definite. Love to learn more and more things from you and this forum.