Is it all just placebo effect?

[EvolvingPhoenix]

So my dad and I were arguing about the effectiveness of subliminals today because I told him I was going to buy E3, even though there was no apparent change brought about by E2. 

Later on in the day, my dad brought up this article and the truth is, I didn't really have a response to it: 

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/14/scien...ter=google

I still bought E3, but I was wondering what you all think about the article. Does it have any validity? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with it? 

I still trust that these subs aren't snake oil, but I have to admit, I don't notice any changes after 2 months of using E2 (3 different times, no less) and I don't have a retort to this article. Also, there seems to be some contention about whether or not the SM, WM and DMSI subs work, from what I can tell. 

So a piece of me is wondering if maybe I'm just a sucker for buying this stuff. Another piece of me is still confident these subs work, despite all that stuff I said above. 

I'm curious what people on the forum have to say about it, so I decided to post it here and ask y'all's opinions.

[Griffin]

i have thought long and hard about this myself, and as i would love to say that i have grown this much without the help of subliminal, and i occasionally have this doubt still. but then yesterday, for example, I was so incredibly happy and content and the night before i was incredibly social during a party.
I am running LTU btw, but i can now confidently say that this is helping me in ways i could not even have imagined.
now of course there are no studies right now done on this(not that i know of) and anecdotal stories are bad evidence.
but if you use this subliminal for 90 days according to the instructions and you don't feel any change for the better then you can ask your money back and at least you tried then

I'm rooting for you!

Cheers

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Shannon posted a rebuttal to the article in my E3 journal. I'm glad he did, because I figured this article was BS, but I didn't know how to respond to it.

[Shannon]

You are actively looking for reasons not to try, because it scares you that this may actually do what it's supposed to do. I already responded to that article in another thread. One of the most ridiculous aspects of what I deal with in making my programs work is, people don't actually want to achieve their own "goals". They really just want to stagnate and suffer because it's more comfortable than facing their fears. That's why it has taken me going on 27 years to get to where I am in developing subliminals that work, and that's why you are sitting here asking people if all this is placebo. After you saved up to buy a $114.95 subliminal because you saw how well it worked for others. While contemplating saving up for one that is more than 10x as expensive, which you want to use for exactly the same reason.

You have to decide for yourself: do you want the end goal you say you want, or do you want what you have? If you want the goal you say you want, then there;s nothing to lose if you use the program properly because you can ask for a refund within 180 days of finishing using it according to the instructions. If you really want whatever you had before, then I'm afraid you're screwed, because the only way to be eligible for a refund is to use the program properly according to the instructions first.

Is all the results everyone here gets placebo? That requires more than a little self delusion to say yes to.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

You're right Shannon. I DID notice the changes it made in others and bought E3 for that reason. That, and because everyone kept telling me to get E3 when they read my E2 journal. What REALLY convinced me was LTU5. I noticed so many changes of people using LTU5, and the closest thing I can afford is E3. On one hand, I want to be like Darth Xedonias, getting my sense of validation from myself and not needing my ex-friend's approval. On the other hand, I want to find a way to get my friend back. Like I still haven't given up on changing her perception of me, despite just how OVER the friendship is. On one hand, I know I need to move on, and on the other, I refuse to let go because I refuse to "give up" on this. I want to get my friend back and change her perception of me, but I wouldn't be able to do that without first letting go and not needing her approval, so it's a catch-22 what I seem to want. And besides, nothing short of the "becoming" method will give me even a snowball's chance in hell at getting my friend back, and I suck at creative visualization, much less the "becoming" method. All in all, I've got some major contradictory issues. I know what I need to do, but then what I WANT to do is a different thing, yet requires me to do what I need to to in order to do it in the first place, so I might as well just do what I need to do and let go. But no matter how much I know I need to just let go, the memories still fuck with me and so does the sense of loss, regret and low self worth.

That's why I'm hoping E3 and later, LTU5 will help me out. So I can get to where Darth Xedonias is at, instead of where I'm currently at.

[Shannon]

The only thing that will give you a snowball's chance in hell of getting her back is becoming what she is willing to be friends with.

The becoming method can be used to "get her back" otherwise, but unless you change what you are vs what she needs, you will end up like I did with one of my ex's. I brought her into my life by using that method, and after 3 years our relationship ended. Then a year later I used it to "get her back". That did happen, but the same exact reason it failed the first time killed it the second time, because the reason we broke up was not changed. In that case, it was because she refused to grow up and take personal responsibility for herself, her choices, her actions and their consequences, and I refused to be her "daddy" to take care of her while she laid around watching South Park and eating microwave macaroni.

Unless the cause of the issue is resolved, the becoming method cannot do anything to keep the goal alive once it is achieved. So your real goal is to achieve the self growth you need to do that, and I'm willing to bet that once you do, like Darth Xedonias, you won't care about "getting her back" because you won't be basing your self esteem and self validation on what anyone else thinks.

Ironically, that is when she is most likely to be willing to be your friend again.

You refuse to give up because you can't handle the alternative right now, which is a fear that without her validation and approval, you have no value.

By the way, E3 was extracted from LTU5, and it is the same thing as what's in LTU5 except it does not make any provision for physical healing. It is also tuned to be more gentle, but that's not because it would be better with more power; on the contrary, it's because the level of power it has is what is best for achieving it's specific goals.

If you think E3 has been helpful for you after 3 months of use, then you can decide whether or not to get yourself a copy of LTU5. But for now, just use E3 according to the instructions and let the program do it's thing.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

The only thing that will give you a snowball's chance in hell of getting her back is becoming what she is willing to be friends with.  

The becoming method can be used to "get her back" otherwise, but unless you change what you are vs what she needs, you will end up like I did with one of my ex's.  I brought her into my life by using that method, and after 3 years our relationship ended.  Then a year later I used it to "get her back".  That did happen, but the same exact reason it failed the first time killed it the second time, because the reason we broke up was not changed.  In that case, it was because she refused to grow up and take personal responsibility for herself, her choices, her actions and their consequences, and I refused to be her "daddy" to take care of her while she laid around watching South Park and eating microwave macaroni.

Unless the cause of the issue is resolved, the becoming method cannot do anything to keep the goal alive once it is achieved.  So your real goal is to achieve the self growth you need to do that, and I'm willing to bet that once you do, like Darth Xedonias, you won't care about "getting her back" because you won't be basing your self esteem and self validation on what anyone else thinks.

Ironically, that is when she is most likely to be willing to be your friend again.

You refuse to give up because you can't handle the alternative right now, which is a fear that without her validation and approval, you have no value.  

By the way, E3 was extracted from LTU5, and it is the same thing as what's in LTU5 except it does not make any provision for physical healing.  It is also tuned to be more gentle, but that's not because it would be better with more power; on the contrary, it's because the level of power it has is what is best for achieving it's specific goals.

If you think E3 has been helpful for you after 3 months of use, then you can decide whether or not to get yourself a copy of LTU5.  But for now, just use E3 according to the instructions and let the program do it's thing.

You're right. I fear I have no value without her validation. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. I have no contact with her anymore. And she lives far from where I am. If I do change, she won't be around to notice. I think I'll just have to accept that it's over. But like you said, I fear that without her validation and approval I have no value. Hopefully the FRM will help with that. Anyway thanks for taking time to respond to these posts. I know you've got more pressing concerns.

[Greenduck]

The only thing that will give you a snowball's chance in hell of getting her back is becoming what she is willing to be friends with.  

The becoming method can be used to "get her back" otherwise, but unless you change what you are vs what she needs, you will end up like I did with one of my ex's.  I brought her into my life by using that method, and after 3 years our relationship ended.  Then a year later I used it to "get her back".  That did happen, but the same exact reason it failed the first time killed it the second time, because the reason we broke up was not changed.  In that case, it was because she refused to grow up and take personal responsibility for herself, her choices, her actions and their consequences, and I refused to be her "daddy" to take care of her while she laid around watching South Park and eating microwave macaroni.

Unless the cause of the issue is resolved, the becoming method cannot do anything to keep the goal alive once it is achieved.  So your real goal is to achieve the self growth you need to do that, and I'm willing to bet that once you do, like Darth Xedonias, you won't care about "getting her back" because you won't be basing your self esteem and self validation on what anyone else thinks.

Ironically, that is when she is most likely to be willing to be your friend again.

You refuse to give up because you can't handle the alternative right now, which is a fear that without her validation and approval, you have no value.  

By the way, E3 was extracted from LTU5, and it is the same thing as what's in LTU5 except it does not make any provision for physical healing.  It is also tuned to be more gentle, but that's not because it would be better with more power; on the contrary, it's because the level of power it has is what is best for achieving it's specific goals.

If you think E3 has been helpful for you after 3 months of use, then you can decide whether or not to get yourself a copy of LTU5.  But for now, just use E3 according to the instructions and let the program do it's thing.

You're right. I fear I have no value without her validation. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. I have no contact with her anymore. And she lives far from where I am. If I do change, she won't be around to notice. I think I'll just have to accept that it's over. But like you said, I fear that without her validation and approval I have no value. Hopefully the FRM will help with that. Anyway thanks for taking time to respond to these posts. I know you've got more pressing concerns.

I was in the same position as you before. Stuck in relationship that I was to afraid of ending because without her I would be "nothing" and went on living with a person that wasn't good for me just because I wouldn't face what I had to face. And the situation is, that because you haven't developed your self-esteem, it IS really nothing without that person. That is a fact. But the only way to develop it, is to face it and work from where it is. I like to thing about self-esteem as a balloon surrounded by ice. You are blowing up the balloon and it's meeting the edges of ice outside it, it hurts, it's scary, it's unexplored territory. But as you blow it up every day and do it again and again you are becoming more used to the feeling of uncertainty and growth, and with enough time you will break the ice-structure and your balloon will expand. And you will meet a new ice structure that you keep working on. But if you continue to shy away from how you feel, you will be stuck in the same place.

Pain is temporary, even if it don't feel like that. People have developed self-esteem without subliminals, but we now have a amazing tool to learn ourselves to outgrow our insecurities and problems with self worth and self esteem, thanks to Shannons deliberate work over decades.