AbyssRockstarXXX

[RainbowAbyss]

Thanks Ryan def. So true woman have become my anti depressant-kind of needy, it helps to know this is normal though

[Ryan]

Well...hopefully you're planning to do what I'm doing and focus a little more on improving your depression once and for all after SM =) I have to go see my doctor tomorrow and discuss alternative pills because I've had crazy ups/downs with my depression during SM where I feel like I need a temporary fix until I can get to fixing the root problem in a few months.

[Shannon]

What you describe is serious resistance and the effects it can cause. Bursting into tears usually happens when you feel like you're caught between deep fears and the program dragging you down the road anyway. Keep going.

[Spiral]

I agree. You will go through some neediness but I texted a girl earlier today that I've always liked and I went to college with her. I already "missed my chance" with her but I wanted to get back in touch and I figured I'll flirt with her a little and she liked it but I got a little more intimate with it maybe too fast. Either way she responded a many a times and the last time she was just like "hhahaha. pass." Basically passing on the roll play. I could have taken a step back and tried it again but I kind of got of my high horse and took it for what it was. I accepted the rejection in a way I guess but made sure she kept in touch with me because she'll be a networking asset down the road. All in all part of me wishes that I could have done things differently but when I relax and realize that all I need is me and my own vision I know things will turn out fine and I will find an awesome girl that will really like what I have to offer and say.

[RainbowAbyss]

Thanks guys-feeling much better alright-I've always been manic-depressive-seeming-nothing serious nor am I diagnosed so I dont really know-but the heavy set subs tend to really deepen and exaggerate the whole up down cycle-especially the depressive is prolonged-maybe from resistance or just brain fatigue-anything with some caffeine and some ginko bilboa really makes me feel better though when I'm brain dead. I also realize how self involved I am a certain level-so bought some of the closest people to me gifts, just a slice of fancy cake for one and a fragrance-d hand sanitizer, just for the hell of it-OMG this not only felt amazing to simply do-but completely made the other people feel acknowledge and some fundamental distress we have been having just disappeared-well at least for now. I realize depression is a very self involved state, I feel self involved is necessary at times, but it can backfire, so perhaps focusing on others during my depressed or difficult period will help-I say that now but the DARKNESS comes on strong-LOL
I went back to the restaurant where I use to work and the waitress, who I knew from working with about, is this really sexy-cute girl with awesome fine work and art tattoos all over her. We had some ok talks but she never seemed that into me, but tonight she was all over me, she rested her breast on my arm when she poured water, grabbed, and touched me several times.
What I am noticing is that girls who may be fluttery around me in general-the moment were alone, kept super focused on me and relaxed.

@Shannon-no doubt in my mind to keep going
it seems to me heavy subs like this are some of the deepest work one can do on themselves I expect a few dark nights of the soul. Anyway crying is like taking an emotional dump-I have a freedom and lightness that is resurfacing now from releasing so much pent up or stuck energy.

@Ryan-it is something I will deal with-I realize a huge cause of it is perpetual fighting with my family-but as our situation is changing-(as of the last few days) things are already looking up.

@Spiral-I'm glad to hear your story-and I use to feel that there is nothing that sux like the one who got away-but I don't follow the relevance-were you saying that there was still a sense of neediness in that u really wanted everything to work out? But when u consciously relax and realize you have your life and your path then its all good? If so thats def. a very good thing to remember. My neediness is (was as of now) more generalized-its like an anxiety about if I am good enough-that was coming up-my attitude once I know a girl for more than a day is gold, once I give her a chance to know me then whatever happens-happens-I don't get attached nor do I particular care-I'm just happy we are together-really!-its moving from zero-to that first day that I have trouble/lack of motivation/anxiety

[Spiral]

Yes there was a sense of neediness but also I knew I needed to keep in touch with her because she is about to graduate with a degree in sound design. She wants to head out west to Colorado which I just found out. At the time we were txting I was going through Colorado and sent her some pictures That's where she wants to go and so do I. SO, you never know.

And I sent her a picture of some mountains earlier today (to sort of make her jealous) and she responded back. Usually if a girl had absolutely no interest whatsoever she would not respond. I'm not looking to much into it. A year ago I would have probably been like oh cool she's still interested.. I'll keep txting her. I'm perfectly fine with myself (on most days anyways ).

[Shannon]

Funny, I was on Colorado not long ago myself.

Rainbow, guys are very often trained to resist experiencing or expressing their own emotions, so that they tend to hold things in and crying is painful because it's not acceptable to most of them. So most guys have a terrible ball of yuck in them that needs to be released, but they don't have a way to do so. Crying sometimes is very healthy and useful.

[RainbowAbyss]

thanks for the words of encouragement, I am feeling MUCH better since ballin my eyes out lol

[RainbowAbyss]

This post is in response to a comment on Shannon's journal posting it here, since its big and so as not to dominate a busy thread.

What about a third variant with a theme of on multiple emotional sexual relationships, like a don juan, zan kind of thing. I'm going to be starting a thread expanding more on what I mean, I don't expect it to come out anytime soon, but still worth exploring.

Multiple emotional sexual relationships? I see you have never had two or more girlfriends at the same time. I've had as many as three at a time, and they all knew about each other while it was happening. It doesn't work unless you can find truly polyamorous or polygamist partners, or you can do things that A) I wasn't willing to do, and B) are illegal in the United States.

Otherwise, eventually, someone feels like they're not being treated as well as/favored as someone else, jealousy sets in, and everything just falls apart. And if emotions are involved, as they were for me, it is painful for everyone if it does fall apart. And triple for me, since I was emotionally invested in all three of them.

Are you sure that's a road you want to go down?

In college at one point I was seeing 4 girls in sexual relationships at the same time, and I was infatuated with all of them as they were with me. They did not know about each other but they knew I was (probably) seeing other people although the issue never came really came up. The 'relationships' were extremely casual and free, zero commitment or obligation but still incredible full of caring and emotion, like it was n't just wham bam thank you mam, but a kind of in the moment love with zero expectations, we always had a lot of fun together. I would only c (sleep with) each one maybe once a week or so but it was still great. The whole thing slowly ended but I am still on good terms with all of them to this day. This was one of the most enjoyable periods of my life and something I would like to re-create. The kind of set I have in mind is something that makes one the kind of person who can have this lifestyle and be the kind of person who can create that sexual and free loving relationship. Although sex magnet might already cover this. I have not come close to re-creating this experience in the NYC, although I'm sure its possible. Here is some philosophy by Zan that gets at what I am talking about. I believe this is in alignment with what Ryan mean by a third variant of woman magnet/sex magnet that was 'Don Juan' like. It about creating amazing experiences, peak experiences, in relating and sex with no expectations that leave both partners feeling more in love with life and themselves.

check it out here
http://www.zanperrion.com/the-essence-of...uction.php

or read below


The Essence of Enlightened Seduction




Every true lover knows that the secret to his power over women lies in the power they have over him. He is a friend to women. He is delighted by the way they flow through life and the way they occupy the world. Their essence enamors and enchants him, and in return he can't help but celebrate them.
He is a romantic; he believes in love, and his love is complete, absolute. He is a slave to his love of women. There is no room for misogyny, no hint of presumption, no toxicity of manipulation.

He knows that women can sense immediately when they are in the presence of a man who loves women, who thinks they are beautiful, who makes them feel lovely, who delights in them. He genuinely loves women, and a man that loves women is loved by women.

He feels no need to validate himself to other men by bragging about his exploits. He never kisses and tells... ever. His encounters with women are never about bolstering his own self-esteem or adding another notch to his bedpost. It is all about respect.


It is never about taking something for himself, but always about sharing something with her.

For he knows that all experiences in life are amplified once they are shared.


His biggest fear is to be perceived as just another man; he is not like other men, nor does he aspire to be.

If he thought for a moment that she regretted her encounter with him in any way, or somehow felt sad or hurt because of him, it would break his heart. He can't bear the thought that a woman would ever feel she was manipulated by him.

And yet he doesn't mask his desires as a man. He never portrays indifference or apathy in an attempt to sneak under the radar. Instead he embraces his sexuality, presents it to her without presumption, is delighted if she responds favorably but deeply respectful if she does not.

He enters every one of his romantic adventures with newness and excitement, like his first love all over again. He knows that the impact he makes on her, and that she makes on him, will resonate with both of them for years.

And will he be hurt? Will he feel the pangs of loss when it ends? Of course. But he loves it all just the same.

Honesty is the greatest aphrodisiac...
He lives his life believing that every interaction in life is, in essence, a seduction. And so he assumes a woman is always interested. It might be a false assumption, of course, but it is a pleasant assumption, and so it is the way he has chosen to live his life.

He never defends himself when accused of being a player. He knows the truth: that he never plays with a woman's emotions. He is at peace with himself.

And so he makes no attempt at apology or justification for the way he is; he desires neither empathy nor absolution, nor even, for that matter, understanding. He has no need to defend himself because women are his greatest defenders.

Instead he believes his intentions are pure and mutually desired. He is genuine and honest, maybe the most honest man she has ever met. And women have demonstrated over and over to him that honesty is the greatest aphrodisiac.

And to him, they are all his girls. Every woman is his woman. He has immense compassion for women. He sees their sadness and their loss, their faded dreams, their dead and dying relationships, their stultifying careers and responsibilities, and he makes it his mission to impart beauty to their life again.

Yes, he has been created by women, formed by them, and inspired by them.

He shares in their secrets...

Zan Perrion

[Shannon]

Zan is certainly poetic in his prose. This sounds wonderful, at first, but really what he is saying is that he is a self delusional self made slave to women by his own sexuality. I can tell you I recognize this because that used to be me.

You attract two types of women with that approach. The first is always wearing rose colored glasses and sees things as being just as dreamy. They typically either don't want you to be with other women, but are so wooly minded that they either just pretend you're all theirs or let it go, even though it bothers them. This eventually leads to hurt and resentment in either case.

The other type is the calculating user. She sees your delusions and is quite happy to give you sex in exchange for controlling and using you. And she will. Some of these are so skilled at deception and manipulation that they themselves don't even know they're doing it.

One important pint I'd like to bring up is that it is never okay to have a relationship with multiple women who are not fully aware of it. That's a form of deception, even if they're willing to play along. You should always be completely up front with women about everything, which I very much agree with Zan concerning. The more boldly you are honest, the more polar your response from women will be, and you will find that a man who is honest is afforded a lot of accesses that lesser men are not. For instance... my three girlfriends who all swore they would never do what they promptly did when I was blatantly honest and told them they could be friends with me, or they could be more but they would have to share.

I see some potential for a different type of program, but I don't want to make any man a slave, or delusional.

[RainbowAbyss]

I kind of expected there to be a misunderstanding with this, if its poetic than we obviously cannot take it literally.
Shannon-'power over him' refers to the fact that at the end of the day we are going to be inspired/attracted to the woman the woman that we are inspired/attracted to and that its better to surrender into that fully then try to hide or pretend it doesn't exist. The power we get from letting that inspiration and attraction acts on us is incredible it can guide our relating in incredible ways. Their power over us is also their gift to us.
haha slave or delusion is a huge misunderstanding, its seems that your your extensive knowledge and experience may be creating a limit to the possibility and understanding of paradigms or perceptions outside the limit of your experience. I assure you Zan is one of the most successful men on this planet in terms of living the life he loves and wants every second of every day, with the people and woman he desires to be with, and with all the resources required to do it, while contributing tremendously around the world, and many of his students feel the same way.
Now of course I am happy (tremendously so) that you are making sure not to turn men into delusional slaves lol but I really think there is some powerful gold in that philosophy, in either case I don't particular practice it myself, necessarily, I just wanted to give some fuel for though about a third variant, but as I am barely into my 3rd week on SM, and you have tons of great new stuff coming out there will be time a plenty for further investigation.
Also would the modern libertine please chime in here about the nature of Zan's philosophy-he must now a thing or two about it.

[RainbowAbyss]

and enough of that-back to my journal
New developments
-pushing interactions with woman way harder
-feel way more likely to say what I want to say
-kind of becoming more of an asshole but in a way people seem to enjoy
-really horny-and at times can get really frustrated/jealous when seeing guys with girls I am attracted to (this is so strange because I had ZERO of this leading up to this set)
-right now I feel like my expectations of my self image-exceed the capacity of my actual self-which is leading to frustration as well
-neediness does seem way down but can spike at points.
-definitely more motivate towards being around woman and anything leading toward sex on one hand on the other hand I feel very just almost happy go lucky and could care less what happens
-My presence feels huge and almost like its 'demanding' on others.
-despite whatever positive changes are happening there are consistent bursts of the worse existential/sexual concerns that I have ever had surfacing.
-I feel much more emotional and very in the moment-almost to the point that my ability for masculine space and self observation is compromised.
-. Feeling much more 'alpha' and dominant sometimes positively so and allot of the time more with an aggression .
-having periods of feeling angry and bitter and really 'beta' like I am just entertainment while everyone actually gets something I cant have lol-objectively its really funny just a lot of dark stuff coming up

Lastly, last night my friend from highschool-who we have all been hanging out with lately-were kind of all doing a subtle intervention to get him back into life since he was a gambling addict and now a bit of a recluse, who is literally one of the worse people with woman I have ever met (were talking the last three times he had sex were with hookers), well he got asked to come home with a really very attractive girl, albeit she was a bit tipsy (quite). This REALLY annoyed me for some reason, jealous-absolutely-on a Halloween party night I would really have loved to be asked home by somebody or gone home with somebody, especially when I am on a program called SEX MAGNET lol (I know I know first stage), and especially when the woman I am seeing didn't get back to me after we made plans to possibly go out this night, and especially when this set is making me as ardent as I am.
Anyway just letting some steam out-in general I am enjoying this set-and everyday it feels more natural and easier.

[Shannon]

I kind of expected there to be a misunderstanding with this, if its poetic than we obviously cannot take it literally.
Shannon-'power over him' refers to the fact that at the end of the day we are going to be inspired/attracted to the woman the woman that we are inspired/attracted to and that its better to surrender into that fully then try to hide or pretend it doesn't exist. The power we get from letting that inspiration and attraction acts on us is incredible it can guide our relating in incredible ways. Their power over us is also their gift to us.
haha slave or delusion is a huge misunderstanding, its seems that your your extensive knowledge and experience may be creating a limit to the possibility and understanding of paradigms or perceptions outside the limit of your experience. I assure you Zan is one of the most successful men on this planet in terms of living the life he loves and wants every second of every day, with the people and woman he desires to be with, and with all the resources required to do it, while contributing tremendously around the world, and many of his students feel the same way.
Now of course I am happy (tremendously so) that you are making sure not to turn men into delusional slaves lol but I really think there is some powerful gold in that philosophy, in either case I don't particular practice it myself, necessarily, I just wanted to give some fuel for though about a third variant, but as I am barely into my 3rd week on SM, and you have tons of great new stuff coming out there will be time a plenty for further investigation.
Also would the modern libertine please chime in here about the nature of Zan's philosophy-he must now a thing or two about it.

I agree, there is some definite gold. It is very likely that instead of there being a misunderstanding, it is simply that I have been pushing myself too hard both physically and mentally to be able to think and communicate well right now. So I will go back over it again when I have had enough rest. Oddly, though, I seem to feel more and more tired every time I wake up lately.

[RainbowAbyss]

That is excellent to hear and
that is odd, are you still listening to sex magnet? maybe its that. Or maybe its the winter and hibernation time!