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NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
01-01-2017, 04:24 AM
Post: #21
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
I'm going to give this a try, i read a bit more on t here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/...mazing_as/

I'll start with at least twenty minutes a day and see how I get on for a month

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Geodude
01-01-2017, 04:46 AM
Post: #22
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(12-31-2016 09:45 PM)Geodude Wrote:  
(12-31-2016 10:31 AM)Bookstacks DC737 Wrote:  A word of warning when it comes to this stuff:

There was a phase on this forum where everyone was doing Natural Grounding and EFT, and while many saw results from it - in the long term it only diminished the results of the subliminals we were running and none of the results were permenant in any sense.

GeoDude claims he's had great results from this material and if he has, good for him. We also have a large amount of people who had no results and couldn't sustain the results they created.

If you read older journals you'll constantly see people picking up EFT and Natural Grounding, only to abandon them because they didn't bring the results as promised. I know Sarge and Benjamin's older journals off the top of my head.

Plus, come on guys. Really? Watching Asian chicks dancing for hours on end is going to get you laid? Really?

I hope I can communicate this stuff better in the future. I write this stuff to help you guys. I was in your shoes not long ago. I'm just writing the thread that I wish I could've read years ago.

I think everybody appreciates that you are trying to help, but it doesn't mean the stuff works for everybody in the same favorable way. But everyone is free to try.

By the way, I think I got an idea what's really behind the NG stuff. But it's not something I am able to communicate. And I also don't think it is required to watch these videos everyday and make yourself cry. Anyway.

INFP - Introvert Intuitive Feeler Perceiver
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01-01-2017, 08:40 AM
Post: #23
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-01-2017 04:24 AM)ArcticFox Wrote:  I'm going to give this a try, i read a bit more on t here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/...mazing_as/

I'll start with at least twenty minutes a day and see how I get on for a month

Awesome post. Thanks! I wish there were more testimonials of this stuff. Don't let anyone discourage you. Do NoFap and NG for 30 days. Let me know how it goes. I have 2 friends who are also doing this challenge. I'll keep you updated.
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01-15-2017, 04:56 PM
Post: #24
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
I've been doing the NG challenge along with 2 friends. One of them quit, while the other one is still going strong.

It's been incredible. I've added daily meditation to the mix and I'm never looking back. I'm a complete idiot for quitting NG a few years ago. But it's all good. Literal miracles have been happening in my life. My friend was in a dry spell for years and he's having incredible results.

I understand why so many are skeptical of this stuff. I've had guys literally watch women approach me, and when I explained about NG, they refused to believe it. The content by the creator of NG has received a ton of negative reviews. Furthermore, the majority of the guys who try it will give up after a few days. So I understand skepticism. It got me, too! I've quit NG many times because of all the negativity. But I encourage you to examine the people who hate on the technique. Are they cool, successful people? Or are they arguing about which is the best penis pump on the internet?

It's really simple. Visualize having an abundance of women and it will make a world of difference for you. Or you can do NG. It's basically the same thing.

Apparently my posts have been circulating on PUA forums, and that's fine. If what you're doing is working for you, continue to do it.

But if you're failing with women like a lot of the guys, do yourself a favor and try something new.

NG is totally free and has been the key to a lot of my success. It's identical to "already having it" which is found in numerous books, like "Psycho-Cybernetics" and "Think and Grow Rich".

Tapping has also done a shit-ton. I've found that success works like this:

1. Visualization/NG
2. Clearing/Tapping
3. NoFap
4. Affirmations/subliminals

When you're doing those 4 things, you will drastically improve your life.

Don't believe me? This method isn't new at all. It's the same shit found in Psycho-Cybernetics, Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, Wild Nights, The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, and tons of other resources. I just have my own interpretation of it.

So hopefully, someone will have the courage to try this shit out and finally escape the hell they're living in.
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01-15-2017, 05:28 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 06:47 PM by RisingSon.)
Post: #25
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Hahaha... Natural Grounding with Rion! Wooooooaaaahhh!!! Next level chi kung sexual attraction - now with crystals!!!

I like NG, or I did. Then I realized I don't see that level of spontaneity and sexual openness in the Western women I am around because the environment is not supportive. Thus, I sunk back into apathy and became generally pessimistic. Eh, what's the point of even trying if I'm not going to have a sexual tantra goddess fall in my lap. Yeah, what a high standard, I know. Good luck finding a partner of that caliber during this period of Kali Yuga. The last chick I found that attractive was some nubile forest nymph I saw in an Oregon sauna. I met a lot of interesting characters in those saunas, now I live in a more repressed conservative area of The States. I'm more attractive than anyone I see irl because I take care of myself, my skin/hair glows and I look like a 20 year old despite being 26. I might as well keep going on nofap with my longevity techniques and regress my age to 16 then go become a saintly yogi in the forest. Neat-O.

I don't even have the motivation to approach chicks or talk to them. It's like, wtf is the point... Just another college sloot. Just some more games to play. I have noticed people and women especially have been staring at me with intense eye contact, must be my intense energy levels, but they are pretty much standoffish.

If DMSI can motivate me to actually engage chicks calmly, aggressively, honestly, and make it fun for both parties then yeah I may stop being so socially pessimistic, but right now I see more benefit in just staying a celibate monk. Better yet I'll just count on DMSI to manifest akin to AYP. That might be worth a shot for an immortal sage like me.

Natural Grounding can take you beyond the realm of mortals.
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dweller94
01-16-2017, 03:06 AM (This post was last modified: 01-16-2017 03:13 AM by Alpha360.)
Post: #26
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Experience on NG for me:
It did something, changed me for me while but nothing results wise from women that I can attribute to it. I didn't test it for long though. I liked to listen to their clips though, it was refreshing like some kind of hypnosis.
From a theory point of view I think the NG stuff is very low tech subs or hypnosis like going to the church or listening to radio or watching TV. It may work for some partially like even the worst hypnosis can sometimes make someone going to a deep trance in 5 out of 100 person.
Then there is the possibility to actually messing you up because the creator or the guys posting the video doesn't have the necessary knowledge to be sure that they know what they are doing.
Also the stuff seems really old, nothing new coming out for long time. It's hard to find good content on this stuff.

After reading the NG material I have a hard understanding the concept behind it? How the video is shot, are the the guy in the video creating NG stuff or it's just a guy video editing video clip? Is there is clue to how the guys create those video?
For example the korean chicks video clips on which most video are based, why them, are they really providing a good feminine image? do they even know what a real feminine image is? Then there is Palmy, supposedly one of the most natural girl, it seems exaggerated to me, she seems like a normal girl doing good music. Hard to say if she would really represent a perfect femininity and my opinion is that she is actually more masculine than most girls by the simple fact that she is a singer.
So overall I haven't found anything really concrete about NG. For example if I take Richard Bandler Hypnosis you can see the guy has worked on his hypnosis for a very long time, it's not done randomly, there is a lot of knowledge behind it. NG content compared to that is almost zero.
I'm not even comparing NG to subs here.

The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.
Only the madman is absolutely sure. Robert Anton Wilson
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01-16-2017, 10:34 AM
Post: #27
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-16-2017 03:06 AM)Alpha360 Wrote:  Experience on NG for me:
It did something, changed me for me while but nothing results wise from women that I can attribute to it. I didn't test it for long though. I liked to listen to their clips though, it was refreshing like some kind of hypnosis.
From a theory point of view I think the NG stuff is very low tech subs or hypnosis like going to the church or listening to radio or watching TV. It may work for some partially like even the worst hypnosis can sometimes make someone going to a deep trance in 5 out of 100 person.
Then there is the possibility to actually messing you up because the creator or the guys posting the video doesn't have the necessary knowledge to be sure that they know what they are doing.
Also the stuff seems really old, nothing new coming out for long time. It's hard to find good content on this stuff.

After reading the NG material I have a hard understanding the concept behind it? How the video is shot, are the the guy in the video creating NG stuff or it's just a guy video editing video clip? Is there is clue to how the guys create those video?
For example the korean chicks video clips on which most video are based, why them, are they really providing a good feminine image? do they even know what a real feminine image is? Then there is Palmy, supposedly one of the most natural girl, it seems exaggerated to me, she seems like a normal girl doing good music. Hard to say if she would really represent a perfect femininity and my opinion is that she is actually more masculine than most girls by the simple fact that she is a singer.
So overall I haven't found anything really concrete about NG. For example if I take Richard Bandler Hypnosis you can see the guy has worked on his hypnosis for a very long time, it's not done randomly, there is a lot of knowledge behind it. NG content compared to that is almost zero.
I'm not even comparing NG to subs here.

I think doing it for 30 days minimum is required. Or maybe 21 days. I've just noticed that it does the exact same thing as if you vividly visualized getting the results you want with women. That's it.

There's a total lack of useful information about it on the internet. That's why I made this thread. I'm 2 weeks into it, and I'm finding myself searching for other people experiencing what I experience. Besides my friend who's also doing this, there's nothing out there.

I see almost everyone chasing happiness and basing their self-worth on their net-worth, and success with women. It's a broken system.

NG gives you free unconditional approval from authentic women via the same system that fucks up everyone in the first place: media.

I get nothing out of sharing this stuff. I'm perfectly happy not posting anything. I just see the lack of people doing NG and it's a damn shame. I with I had this thread 10 years ago.

You DON'T have to do NG if you are vividly visualizing having the success you want with women. They will have a very similar effect. Personally, I can't visualize worth shit, so I prefer this method.

There's always gonna be a lot of guys who refuse to do NG. They will continue to struggle and be unhappy. But can you sacrifice a mere 20 minutes a day? That's it. If you do NG for 20 minutes a day and you don't look at porn, I guarantee that it will turn your life upside-down. (In a good way.)

I personally know of guys who did NG for a while and got no results. Objectively, these guys were virgins, they lived with their parents, and had low self-esteem. They're the biggest critics of it.

But, I also know of guys who are having incredible success. I know these guys in real life. They don't get on and post their results.
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01-16-2017, 10:50 AM
Post: #28
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-15-2017 04:56 PM)Geodude Wrote:  I've been doing the NG challenge along with 2 friends. One of them quit, while the other one is still going strong.

It's been incredible. I've added daily meditation to the mix and I'm never looking back. I'm a complete idiot for quitting NG a few years ago. But it's all good. Literal miracles have been happening in my life. My friend was in a dry spell for years and he's having incredible results.

I understand why so many are skeptical of this stuff. I've had guys literally watch women approach me, and when I explained about NG, they refused to believe it. The content by the creator of NG has received a ton of negative reviews. Furthermore, the majority of the guys who try it will give up after a few days. So I understand skepticism. It got me, too! I've quit NG many times because of all the negativity. But I encourage you to examine the people who hate on the technique. Are they cool, successful people? Or are they arguing about which is the best penis pump on the internet?

It's really simple. Visualize having an abundance of women and it will make a world of difference for you. Or you can do NG. It's basically the same thing.

Apparently my posts have been circulating on PUA forums, and that's fine. If what you're doing is working for you, continue to do it.

But if you're failing with women like a lot of the guys, do yourself a favor and try something new.

NG is totally free and has been the key to a lot of my success. It's identical to "already having it" which is found in numerous books, like "Psycho-Cybernetics" and "Think and Grow Rich".

Tapping has also done a shit-ton. I've found that success works like this:

1. Visualization/NG
2. Clearing/Tapping
3. NoFap
4. Affirmations/subliminals

When you're doing those 4 things, you will drastically improve your life.

Don't believe me? This method isn't new at all. It's the same shit found in Psycho-Cybernetics, Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, Wild Nights, The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, and tons of other resources. I just have my own interpretation of it.

So hopefully, someone will have the courage to try this shit out and finally escape the hell they're living in.

Does NG help only with women? What about life success / limiting beliefs / fear eradication
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01-16-2017, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 01-16-2017 11:04 AM by Travis.)
Post: #29
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Are there any other videos besides Asian women dancing? I feel like an old creep watching that shit.
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Geodude
01-16-2017, 10:31 PM
Post: #30
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Geodude, its awesome your getting success with that!
In my experience/understanding NG
simply represents actual female attraction, flirtation, and sexual response.
Like how a woman would treat you if she was crushing on you or really into you.
Watching it is like soaking in the energy of that. There's plenty of more western
videos that are out there if you know what to look for have similar energy/response.
This is opposed to a socialized response, or a fantasy sexual response
like one might see in porn. Its like wiring yourself to automatically see that flirty, feminine,
expressive, authentically sexually, sweet side in woman. This brings it out of woman, because your
showing up as a space for them to become there most feminine selves.
I've done it consistently at points, and my success and comfort around woman, even really attractive woman, has gone way up. In fact I'm going to do 21 day challenge of it again.
Geodude, do you create your own tapping scripts or have a resource for it?

1. There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness.
2. A thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions... Success and failure are for him answers above all.
3. I would not know what the spirit of a philosopher might wish more then to be than a good dancer.-F.N.
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Geodude
01-17-2017, 12:14 AM
Post: #31
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Better just use NG 2.0. Some may call it porn, but if you watch naked women having sex all day it gives you a feeling of abundance. There are some videos about it on youtube.
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Bookstacks DC737
01-17-2017, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2017 05:43 AM by Alpha360.)
Post: #32
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-16-2017 10:34 AM)Geodude Wrote:  I personally know of guys who did NG for a while and got no results. Objectively, these guys were virgins, they lived with their parents, and had low self-esteem. They're the biggest critics of it.

When I started sub I was a virgin, I was living with my parents and I had low self-esteem. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
I guess that explains why I didn't got results with NG Big Grin
I just used sub and it started to changed Smile
It makes me laugh when I read on the pherotruth forum that Alpha360 got results with subs because he wasn't a virgin when he started. I don't know where they got that idea, must be the SM3 aura influencing them.

The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.
Only the madman is absolutely sure. Robert Anton Wilson
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Geodude
01-17-2017, 11:01 AM
Post: #33
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-17-2017 12:14 AM)changer Wrote:  Better just use NG 2.0. Some may call it porn, but if you watch naked women having sex all day it gives you a feeling of abundance. There are some videos about it on youtube.

Lol wtf are you talking about Smile

You're actually watching another guy banging a chick you want, so technically you're being cuckolded. Wink
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01-17-2017, 11:03 AM
Post: #34
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-17-2017 05:38 AM)Alpha360 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 10:34 AM)Geodude Wrote:  I personally know of guys who did NG for a while and got no results. Objectively, these guys were virgins, they lived with their parents, and had low self-esteem. They're the biggest critics of it.

When I started sub I was a virgin, I was living with my parents and I had low self-esteem. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
I guess that explains why I didn't got results with NG Big Grin
I just used sub and it started to changed Smile
It makes me laugh when I read on the pherotruth forum that Alpha360 got results with subs because he wasn't a virgin when he started. I don't know where they got that idea, must be the SM3 aura influencing them.

Sorry buddy. I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote that. I was there at one point, too. In fact, when I did NG the first time I was a virgin and was living in poverty. Wink

Anybody that hates on you on other forums are just frustrated losers. Don't pay any attention to them.
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01-17-2017, 11:06 AM
Post: #35
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-16-2017 10:31 PM)RainbowAbyss Wrote:  Geodude, its awesome your getting success with that!
In my experience/understanding NG
simply represents actual female attraction, flirtation, and sexual response.
Like how a woman would treat you if she was crushing on you or really into you.
Watching it is like soaking in the energy of that. There's plenty of more western
videos that are out there if you know what to look for have similar energy/response.
This is opposed to a socialized response, or a fantasy sexual response
like one might see in porn. Its like wiring yourself to automatically see that flirty, feminine,
expressive, authentically sexually, sweet side in woman. This brings it out of woman, because your
showing up as a space for them to become there most feminine selves.
I've done it consistently at points, and my success and comfort around woman, even really attractive woman, has gone way up. In fact I'm going to do 21 day challenge of it again.
Geodude, do you create your own tapping scripts or have a resource for it?

***** finally. Someone who gets it! Smile

I don't create tapping scripts. All I do is tap to release the meaning of stuff. Because it's not the event that causes you issues, it's the meaning you give it. So when you erase the meaning, the problem disappears.
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01-17-2017, 11:09 AM
Post: #36
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-16-2017 11:04 AM)Travis Wrote:  Are there any other videos besides Asian women dancing? I feel like an old creep watching that shit.

This made me laugh.

That's exactly what I said when I first started out. I was like, "This is gay." "Wtf is this shit." etc.

I agree, to the uninitiated, it seems ***** weird. I get it, I'm a regular dude with a regular job and there's no way I could explain this shit to my coworkers.

I'd recommend going to http://www.naturalgrounding.net and going through the course.

He explains it pretty good on there.

Just know, when you get emotional about the videos. (Again, I realize how ***** weird that sounds), that's when the magic will start happening.
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01-17-2017, 11:14 AM
Post: #37
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Day 16 of NG/NoFap
and guess what?

Women are approaching me again!

I figured it out. You have to 100% give up wanting anything from women. I thought I understood that before, but I was missing something.

Read this post: http://relationalmastery.com/amember/for...?f=2&t=306

He explains it perfectly.

If that doesn't 100% click with you, then keep doing NG and NoFap. And hell, throw in 15 minutes of meditation a day, while you're at it.
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01-17-2017, 11:29 AM
Post: #38
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
(01-17-2017 11:03 AM)Geodude Wrote:  
(01-17-2017 05:38 AM)Alpha360 Wrote:  
(01-16-2017 10:34 AM)Geodude Wrote:  I personally know of guys who did NG for a while and got no results. Objectively, these guys were virgins, they lived with their parents, and had low self-esteem. They're the biggest critics of it.

When I started sub I was a virgin, I was living with my parents and I had low self-esteem. Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
I guess that explains why I didn't got results with NG Big Grin
I just used sub and it started to changed Smile
It makes me laugh when I read on the pherotruth forum that Alpha360 got results with subs because he wasn't a virgin when he started. I don't know where they got that idea, must be the SM3 aura influencing them.

Sorry buddy. I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote that. I was there at one point, too. In fact, when I did NG the first time I was a virgin and was living in poverty. Wink

Anybody that hates on you on other forums are just frustrated losers. Don't pay any attention to them.
No offense taken, I don't see them as losers, just that they got the wrong idea about me because I changed so much in a short amount of time. I can understand that it's hard to believe.
Actually the guy who said that was trying to help as they were comparing phero to sub and most phero users who don't get laid before using phero usually don't after using phero. At least it's what they believe.
I think it's mostly a limiting belief and that it's more complicated than that.

Being a virgin is just one variable. For example there is the social guy who is a virgin who get along with a lot of people and there is the virgin who has a lot of social anxieties. That makes a bigger difference than having your dick wet by accident. People put too much emphasis on virginity, like it means everything when it means so little.
For example some guys are dating their girlfriend for like 2 year and never have sex with her.
That kind of virgin will surely have a easier time to lose it if he is willing to.

The "Living with your parents" is another stupidity to me, like it is actually important, even Brad Pitt could live with his parents for a while and it wouldn't mean anything. In some country some people live with their parents all their life, they don't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe one day I will make 10k a month and I will live with my parents just for fun.

The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.
Only the madman is absolutely sure. Robert Anton Wilson
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01-19-2017, 03:08 AM
Post: #39
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
Hello Geodude!

I am very intrigued by this natural grounding thing. It sounds very similar to what porn does to the brain, they're both causing effects to it in opposite fashions. I know all too well about the damage porn causes...it's taken me over a year to get somewhat proper erections again while standing (the type of erection which takes the longest to come back btw to all reading), while sitting erections took 9 months to have any real size and strength to them. The damage porn causes is extreme and often in the background for a long time, people have no idea until they're so deep it takes so long to heal from it and become sexually aroused normally again to a normal woman and sexual situation. I'm convinced there could be merit to this natural grounding since it sounds like the other side of porn's coin, seems logical it can work if there's commitment to it.

I will commit to this technique during my rest period from DMSI. That means I will be starting in the next few minutes, as today is my first rest day. I will commit more than 20 minutes a day, maybe a couple hours, due to the fact that I will probably only have a few weeks before V3.1 comes out. So I will give it more usage to give it a chance. It sounds like something that can fix my exact issues with women.

I have kicked porn out of my life over a year ago, fapping over a year ago, so I seem well primed for this. Should be intriguing!

Thank you for posting this for the community's benefit.
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Geodude
01-19-2017, 03:23 AM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2017 03:36 AM by Alpha360.)
Post: #40
RE: NG: The Solution to your Women Issues
I don't get why people don't get that NG is like hypnosis and you shouldn't use any other mind programming stuff with subs.

From the FAQ:
Quote:Can I use your subliminals with those made by other companies, or hypnosis, etc?

I once got an e-mail from someone who was having a negative result from the free self confidence program. This person broke two key rules for using subliminals. I would like to make it very clear here, because it’s apparent that they did not know these rules to using subliminals.

Rule #1: DO NOT mix subliminals from different producers!

I cannot emphasize this enough! Different producers use different scripting techniques. Different techniques based on different levels of understanding of the subconscious mind, and techniques which are often kept secret because of trade secret. Different techniques which may cause unpredictable results, including negative results. Don’t mix programs from different producers, and don’t use programs from more than one producer within 32 days of each other.

This brings up the question of scripting methodology. Can even a properly scripted program cause a bad response after being used by someone who has been using an improperly scripted program? Yes. This is why you never ever mix subliminals by different producers.

In other words, to be perfectly clear: if you use subliminals from producer X, you should never use subliminals from any other producer unless you have been at LEAST 32 days without using ANY subliminals at all. (And if you’ve been using the subs produced by X for a long time (more than 32 days), a good 90 day wait without using subs is in order. Then you should be able to use subliminalss by producer Y without a problem.

Rule #2: If you use a subliminal that causes you increased stress, distress, upset, anxiety, or any other negative response – and you have been using subliminals from multiple producers within 30 days of each other – immediately stop using the program that is triggering the negative responses, and seriously consider stopping ALL subliminals for 30 to 90 days to allow the conflicting programming to be released.

If you’re having anxiety, upset, stress, fear responses, etc. from a program and it’s not due to potential producer scripting technique conflict (and hypnosis is another possible cause for this conflict), then you have to evaluate the situation a little differently.

Are you having these results because you’re just working through the negativity holding you back, or are you having the responses as a form of resistance that is going to produce potentially life threatening depression? If you think it is the latter, stop using the program(s) immediately.

We don’t want anything but the best for you, but you can’t have it both ways. If you like my stuff, use my stuff, but don’t use my stuff and someone else’s. Likewise vice versa. You stand a good chance of messing yourself up by mixing production and scripting techniques.

I know mine are properly scripted, and that’s a large part of why I both post the scripts for all to see whenever I can, and why I am so insistent that you not mix producers: I don’t want my stuff to look bad because someone else isn’t using proper (or compatible) scripting methods, and I don’t want anyone getting hurt because of someone else’s mistakes (which I cannot do anything about) or incompatible techniques!

Concerning mixing hypnosis, EFT or NLP with subliminals:

Do not use any method to attempt to achieve incompatible goals at the same time. Also do not using multiple methods together unless you know what the scripts for all are, and you know for sure that they do not conflict in goal, result or scripting methods.

This is old so the 32 days rules is probably outdated with 5.5G making it even more important to not mix before a rest period of 32 days.

The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.
Only the madman is absolutely sure. Robert Anton Wilson
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