Poll: Is it a good or bad idea to create and release digital recreational drug simulants in subliminal audio programming form?
Yes.
No.
Other. (See below.)
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Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
03-12-2015, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 07:09 AM by stratos.)
Post: #21
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I vote "no" but support "yes" if that's what Shannon wants to do as I don't oppose it that much and it sounds like a neat project. The reason I vote "no" is that awesome "states" can be achieved naturally and at the appropriate times after using subs like AM6 and EPRHA, and (in my opinion of course) doing clearing exercise. Relying on artificial pursuit of states seems to, in my experience with people, cause immaturity and avoidance of painful things that need to be handled to grow, mature, and have those awesome states happen naturally.

Having a certain "state" as a goal can have the counterintuitive effect of making that state much harder to achieve and have a worse baseline mood. So I'm in the "don't pursue a certain kind of state" camp. Dive into your painful moods, clear them out, and you will improve your baseline mood as well as the plasticity of your mood so awesome states can happen all on their own when you are in great situations which will be attracted by your improved baseline state.
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03-12-2015, 10:15 AM
Post: #22
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-11-2015 07:06 PM)Shannon Wrote:  I have the knowledge now, theoretically at least, to design and build viable digital subliminal drug simulants. These are not drugs themselves, but would be designed to get your brain to recreate the effects of the drugs without your having used them. I am contemplating whether or not to create simulants of recreational drugs. Is this a good idea, or a bad one? Please vote and discuss this below.

Shannon, as much as I love all the works of your hand and brain, I'll have to vote NO! Why? Because I'm waiting for Intuition to be upgraded to 5G dude! Having a strong gut instinct from deep down your soul is a the greatest high as far as I'm concerned.Wink
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03-12-2015, 11:18 AM
Post: #23
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
It seems to me incredibly limiting to circumscribe this potential of what I can only call “designer states” with an association to drugs.

That being said, I agree with much of what Stratos has posted. I have experienced altered states during my use of IML subliminals (altered time during OGSF and altered time and incredibly vivid colors, and perception of the “aliveness” of nature during Anger Management)

I have also experienced similar states (one time I saw trees breathing!) as a result of my personal practice (don't ask, Rule 4.) But the practice is never in search of these states.

But from a cup of coffee, to heroin, from chanting, to bungee jumping, people are looking for that “something” to get them out of their ordinary reality, at least for a little while. People want to be more relaxed, or more energized, or free from pain. Sometimes people just need a little immediate relief, without waiting 6 months for a sub to transform their perceptual filters.

Imagine you and some friends could listen to a sub, and spend the evening watching some stupid movie and laughing uproariously, without the munchies associated with a marijuana high. What if listening to a sub could give you a glimpse of the reality beyond form? If you could custom design your own (temporary) state, what would it be?

I believe a market exists for a “Designer States” line of subliminals. And rather than look at it as a product, I would consider it more of a service. In terms of cost, in terms of safety (physical and legalities) and in terms of potentials, this is an option people need.

"...when it rains, street gets wet."
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03-12-2015, 12:02 PM
Post: #24
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I voted a solid NO.

People here can't even be trusted to read, let alone follow the instructions to the subliminal recordings currently offered. I question their ability to use these types of products maturely. Additionally, I personally see little benefits of recreational drugs. From my perspective, the programs offered at Indigo address two key issues: to repair injury & pain or improve oneself either physically or emotionally. I don't see how this product would fit into those categories.

While I admire your creativity and ingenuity Shannon, I don't think you should consider opening this Pandora's Box.
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03-12-2015, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 02:25 PM by TangoDelta.)
Post: #25
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I voted "Yes" because people should be allowed to make their own, hopefully responsible, decisions. It could also be further proof that these things can work.

However, I think there are other subliminal requests that are in much higher demand and it would probably be more fruitful if those were made first.
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03-12-2015, 02:59 PM
Post: #26
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I'd say yes, if the sub doesn't give any side effects which I don't think it'd. It'd be a safe way for someone who doesn't want the harmful effects and physical addiction problems involved with the substance, and still experimenting with how it feels to take those drugs..
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03-12-2015, 03:09 PM
Post: #27
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
Ruffian very good points. If Shannon were to make designer states products I would definitely try them recreationally. I bought x124 and it definitely puts me in a sexual state right away. (If I had to guess I think it's a subliminal version of the sound of people having sex as it works in any language and put me in a sexual state immediately. I cant think of what else might do that.)

But if asked to vote n what Shannon should do next I think he might have more work to do with healing and life-goal products. I'll be glad to try whatever he does though and would enjoy such a project just to experiment with as with x124 so maybe i'll change my vote and if people use them as too much of an escape that's on them.
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03-12-2015, 03:11 PM
Post: #28
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I don't mind either way, personally I don't plan to use them as i'll stick to the personal development type programs.. so it doesn't really effect me.

But at the same time if for example the research into these programs impacted the programs I do listen to by developing technology to make them more effective then i'm all for it.
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03-12-2015, 03:12 PM
Post: #29
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
No, for reasons already mentioned by others.
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03-12-2015, 03:15 PM
Post: #30
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
Well, after getting some thoughts on the matter, here is what I concluded.

In my thought experiment, I considered what would happen if - as doubtless would be the case - someone stupid got their hands on the program. Said moron would of course be under a reasonable age, and would get the brilliant idea that it would be funny to play the program in school, in class, on the school bus, etc. The effects would be noticed, and this would quickly turn into a media scandal, causing the company to be pretty much shut down by the same backlash that created a slew of laws against this sort of thing, without ever really understanding what they were attempting to legislate out of existence.

The end result: yet more illegal "drugs", usable in more situations, by a wider range of people/ages, and no benefit at all besides someone deciding that they like the fact that they can get high at will. Oh, and IML would be a memory, and there would be more laws against subliminals.

Benefit: 1%
Detriment: 99%

So... I have concluded that this is not going to happen.

Subliminal Audio Specialist & Administrator

The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.)
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03-12-2015, 03:20 PM
Post: #31
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
Shannon YOU do what chew want to Man,its yer decision, were I in your shoes,I ,in this case, would leave well enough alone Man. Yer askin for it. Hate to see IML go the way of the doe doe bird,etc. and you off to SING sing,up stream without a paddle. Because of mis use,abuse and mis-placed blame, argh. I, for one, would like to see further progress in the realm of the MPME coupled with success,less stress and abundance. Thats MY two dimes worth. peace. Keith.

' Money doesn't Change People,Man,don't U know that,it ONLY reveals them"-'Hawk' from Spencer for Hire TV show
lighthealing.com -personal rejuvenizer midnight blue-men's ring pictured(Keith)
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03-12-2015, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 05:01 PM by athanas.)
Post: #32
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
I voted yes and 100% agree with K-Train, robstar and coldfact.

I'd start with the most simple one: alcohol.

It's already legal so less concern regarding that. And how many people just use alcohol as a social lubricant. Imagine if you could have the same effect without paying for drinks, without an hangover the next day and without having liquid poison entering your body destroying your liver and health long term.

People all over the world are already drinking legally alcohol as much as they want, so it wouldn't be a global revolution if Shannon makes an alcohol subliminal drug and therefore no need to concern yourself with dystopian fantasies like "what would happen if?"... yeah as if subliminal drug addicted homeless people would suddenly appear everywhere and the world would destroy itself just because Shannon creates subliminals that have similar effects to drugs while missing many of their negative side-effects.

the second could be: marihuana

it's legal in many places, and where it's not, lots of "normal" people already consumed it without having their lifes destroyed. It's harmless and society at large finally gets it as it's becoming legal in more and more places. actually I think it's less harmful than alcohol and that is legal really everywhere.

------------------

and after people recognize the benefits of those two "safe choices" there could be the possibility to explore more subliminal drugs with effects similar to not (yet) legal drugs, like cocaine, DMT, psylocobin etc.

Of course with explanations of possible side effects and risks to educate the customer before using the product. This way he is free to make an informed decision by himself rather than having somebody patronizing him and telling him what changes in consciousness he is allowed to make and which not (while wickedly having his own agenda in prohibiting certain substances to make more money by pushing his own poisonous products instead of having the highest good of you in mind)


I understand that many people have a lot of fear (guilt, shame, fear? -> OGSF!) surrounding recreational drugs (installed through society) as they never really came to contact with it but have their impression of them mostly about articles and "hearsay". Illegal Drugs aren't nearly as addictive as the media portrays it to be while legal drugs (alcohol, cigarettes) are largely downplayed. Especially downplayed are completely overseen substances like high fructose corn syrup sprinkled over all our food. It's literally liquid addictive poison.

I would take the illegal ayahuasca any day for its spiritual, emotional and physical health effects over the legal drugs like alcohol and cigarettes. Studies showed "Dimethyltryptophan" (DMT e.g. from ayahuasca) had many beneficial effects on mice: it relieves tension from the body, heals depression and posttraumatic syndromes, it lets all kinds of fears disappear. Almost no deaths reported from DMT, and those few are even unclear, no comparison to the death percentage of alcohol use.

DMT is not at all artificial, it as natural as it gets. Everything has DMT in it, every plant, every animal. We produce DMT while we sleep, and produce more during meditation. Compare putting something of that into your body vs putting psychotropic drugs to easen your anxiety/depression.

It's very safe while making most psychotropic drugs obsolete but can't be patented. Now guess who wouldn't be very happy if that drug would be recognized as a safe and simultaneously healthy alternative?

And I wouldn't be concerned about any legal issues regarding replicating the effects of illegal drugs through subliminals. Before they can lay any hand on IML it first have to become an official fact that subliminals work, and until something "outrageous" like that enters mainstream consciousness it will take a lot of time. Until then there's plenty of time to see how the subliminal drugs work and to decide on how to follow through with it in the future.

PS: Having the subliminals pirated on a large scale could be a very good strategy for IML to go for. Subliminals like that have THE ABILITY to go viral. Much more than ASC or EPRHA.

People would be sharing them with everybody. It's fun and an easy topic. You don't talk casually with friends about fixing deep rooted fears through subs and share your experiences with it. It's an intimate topic. But guess how many would be gladly talking about their "marihuana" sub, talking about their experiences with it and showing it to their friends on their next visit...

It would spread like wildfire and drawing a lot of attention, a lot of traffic and a lot of customers to IML. After the initial curiosity of subliminal drugs wears off, people might become interested what the subliminal creator could do with their confidence, charisma or maybe breast size/penis size after he was able to make them high just like that.

I think that could be the main function of subliminal drugs for IML. They are the curiosity building "bells" and "whistles" that attract many people and make them talk about this company and their products. And then many of those become curious to dig deeper and use products that help them on a deeper level.

This is just how the world works. You don't just dive full-in to deep conversation with somebody you don't know. First you make small talk and get to know each other a bit before taking it on a deeper level.

Subliminal drugs are perfect for this. They create a fun and light space to casually explore the world of subliminals and to get to know IML and become comfortable with the company just as you'd become slowly comfortable with a stranger after some small talk. Now that you're comfortable you'd probably become curious to know more about that person, just as customers would get intrigued by the "deeper working products" like AM6 after their introduction to the light&easy subliminal drugs.

Most people aren't hardcore "enthusiasts" like most of us are right now on this forum. We are just a small segment of the population. And as I see Shannon running BAMM I don't think he is going to settle for a small audience longterm but rather going for a big segment providing a big customer base. It's hard to make billions without a large customer base.

And Subliminal Drugs could open the doors for IML to get access to such a larger segment, to attract more mainstream, average, normal people to it. This is a huge segment, it would be very profitable while making a lot more people happy than IML could possibly right now.
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03-12-2015, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 05:10 PM by athanas.)
Post: #33
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
edit: I just read Shannons post now.

That's the worst case scenario. People will be able to do stupid stuff with anything if it is powerful. If you make NSFM in 6G and it becomes as powerful as your subliminal drugs can get, about the same thing could happen... would this be a reason for you to never amp it's power up?

Please let this idea lay on your mind for some more time. With all profit risk is inherent, usually directly proportionally. Yes you would be taking a risk creating those products but also ask yourself what would you be risking not making them? How much exposure would you not get by people not sharing and experiencing them? There are always that 1% stupid people... if innovators would let themselves be hold back by them we wouldn't have the technology we have today.

In a couple of weeks you will come up with a workaround anyway to prevent the stupid 1% of people making dumm stuff with it or at least make it harder for them. Maybe something like a loud warning as you did with the silent arousal subs. Educate people about your products, the risks and sideeffects they could have and make them available only to 18+.

If people decide to use your products against your adivce, going through all the hassle of using it in a way it isn't designed, purposely disregarding any of your warnings you can't be blamed for that... you did everything in your power to prevent it.

Think about how "dangerous" elictricity is, and what stupid stuff dumb people could do with it. Even way more dangerous things than any subliminal. What would we do if Edison and Tesla would have thought only about the dumb 1% disregarding the 99%? There were a lot of warnings against Alternating current and yet we use it today on a large scale. What would be society without it?

I think those questions are far more important than the one question probably every innovator asked themselves at some point:

"what would dumb people do with my technology?"

Hopefully you consider thinking about it a bit more. You can't prevent dumb people from doing dumb things. If you're not creating those powerful subs now, maybe we have to wait another 100 years and somebody will. And the dumb people will wait for him to abuse it. And it will still be a success like the alternating current is.
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03-12-2015, 08:44 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 08:47 PM by K-Train.)
Post: #34
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
Shannon, please tell me you ARE going to amp up NSFM. Although I do see where people like athanas are coming from, I still wanna know the difference between you creating a 6G Overcome Fear that could potentially turn someone into a fearless madman that runs out into the street, proclaiming himself to be a religious figure, and/or trying to jump into the ocean to swim with sharks without a net and you upgrading NSFM into 6G status. Matter of fact, what about ASC? Afterall, if you make someone's confidence TOO high you might get something similar. Hell, I can say with full conviction that I was a borderline class 12 a-hole when I used ASC 4G 2-3 years ago. I can't even imagine how I'd act on a stronger version. What about Ultra Success? Many people get a euphoria from it due to all the positive energy and that feeling is basically a "high" except you could say it's a high off life or a high off success.

The point i'm making here is where is the line going to be drawn? At what point is Shannon going to say well this stuff is too strong time to stop? I fear that in an effort to prevent enabling stupidity we will reach a point where we can no longer serve those who may truly benefit with this technology.

And just to be clear, I respectfully go along with Shannon's decision not to release the DSDs the above statement is geared more so towards my fear that Shannon may metaphorically throw his hands up and stonewall amping up subs just because a few dumbasses (not you AJK, and whoever else voted "NO", I'm talking about that 0.000000001% that f@cks sh!t up for the rest of us) might go out and do some dumbshit. This is why we can't have nice things because of that "few" who go out and f-ck sh!t up for everyone else.

END. RANT.

Shannon Wrote:The men do what needs to be done to get what they want, even if the process isn't fun, or takes them away from what they want for a while. The boys chase what they want without ever doing what it takes to get it.
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03-12-2015, 10:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 10:29 PM by coldfact.)
Post: #35
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-12-2015 03:15 PM)Shannon Wrote:  Said moron would of course be under a reasonable age, and would get the brilliant idea that it would be funny to play the program in school, in class...
I don't get the logic behind this. These are subs, right? ("drug stimulants in subliminal audio programming form") or some other tech?

If subs, couldn't you simply add programming to prevent this? i.e. make the effects ONLY felt by the person who is aware that the sub is being played and is willingly listening to the sub for the very purpose of feeling the effects and has consented to as much and/or meets other criteria (e.g. over a certain age or whatever)

You have put such kinds of limiting programming in other subs (e.g. to prevent women being influenced by male subs playing in the background) why couldn't you limit drug subs in the very same way?
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03-13-2015, 04:28 AM
Post: #36
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-13-2015 03:40 AM)MannSchaft Wrote:  Of course NO

Just because marijuana, hashish and co. are allowed in one or two countries doesn't make it harmless. In many countries you'll get like 20 years for smoking it and execution for dealing.

Shannon made the right decision. This is low and IML is above this shit.

I agree with you. There are many important subs can be made instead of wasting time on drugs and pot LOL . Maximum learning speed, 6G developments, reducing BAMM into 6 months, pregnancy sets, Bed mastery and many more sub can be extracted from BASE instead of these drug and thug life Big Grin
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03-13-2015, 05:30 AM
Post: #37
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-13-2015 04:28 AM)jonathan4all Wrote:  I agree with you. There are many important subs can be made instead of wasting time on drugs and pot LOL . Maximum learning speed, 6G developments, reducing BAMM into 6 months, pregnancy sets, Bed mastery and many more sub can be extracted from BASE instead of these drug and thug life Big Grin
While I fully agree with you that there are many subs I would want before this (esp the learning one!!) - there is something to be said for enjoying life, having fun and relaxation - not just a continuous drive for self-improvement! Big Grin

So instead of 'winding down' in an unhealthy way, why not listen to a sub instead of pounding beers? Cool
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03-13-2015, 05:59 AM
Post: #38
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-13-2015 05:30 AM)coldfact Wrote:  
(03-13-2015 04:28 AM)jonathan4all Wrote:  I agree with you. There are many important subs can be made instead of wasting time on drugs and pot LOL . Maximum learning speed, 6G developments, reducing BAMM into 6 months, pregnancy sets, Bed mastery and many more sub can be extracted from BASE instead of these drug and thug life Big Grin
While I fully agree with you that there are many subs I would want before this (esp the learning one!!) - there is something to be said for enjoying life, having fun and relaxation - not just a continuous drive for self-improvement! Big Grin

So instead of 'winding down' in an unhealthy way, why not listen to a sub instead of pounding beers? Cool

Haha, agreed. Big Grin

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03-13-2015, 06:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2015 06:52 AM by athanas.)
Post: #39
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
(03-13-2015 04:28 AM)jonathan4all Wrote:  I agree with you. There are many important subs can be made instead of wasting time on drugs and pot LOL . Maximum learning speed, 6G developments, reducing BAMM into 6 months, pregnancy sets, Bed mastery and many more sub can be extracted from BASE instead of these drug and thug life Big Grin

I don't think Shannon is going to make a 6-stage marihuana sub so it's not as if we're talking about subliminal drugs being the center of all future production.

Quote:Of course NO

Just because marijuana, hashish and co. are allowed in one or two countries doesn't make it harmless. In many countries you'll get like 20 years for smoking it and execution for dealing.

illegal =/= harmful, legal =/= harmless.

So if you are so concerned about the legal status of the drugs what about a subliminal drug that replicates alcohol?

I don't think anybody can say something against that. There are definititely people who would be gladly cashing out some money to never have to spend money on overpriced drinks, and being able to get drunk to the degree they want without any longterm detrimental healt affects like the substance would cause. Normal people btw, not drugheads, homeless people or retards.

I think the target audience of a healthy booze alternative is even more "normal" than the target audience for self improvement subs like SM3,WM2 etc. hence the possibility for IML to increase it's target audience and revenue by including a more broad and mainstream segment of the popultation.

Quote:Shannon made the right decision. This is low and IML is above this shit.

that's a perfect excample of an irrational emotionally conditioned response that people usually have around such topics. Is this really how this should be worked out?

Like any products, not everybody has to like them or want them, just the target audience has to. That's fine you don't have to buy them, other people will.

Innovators are always challenging the status quo and disrupt such preconceived opinions with their products. They can't allow to be hold back by them. I bet many people were conditioned to think about subs like penis Enlargement "eww that's gross who'd want that" or about SM3 "how desperate do you have to be to do that?"

And yet Shannon built those products and people got comfortable with them and love them. Imagine what this place would be without SM3 or any other usually "odd" sub like MYPL, AOS or BIAWS? Yes some people still raise an eyebrow when the first learn about them but as soon as they see how many people already accepted such subs they become comfortable with them. The very same will happen with a "booze sub".

Not everything has to be improving your life in a deep and meaningful way as AM6 does. Some things are meant to be fun and light. For everything there is a target audience and product diversification will attract a greater range of people to IML.

Quote:So instead of 'winding down' in an unhealthy way, why not listen to a sub instead of pounding beers? Cool

it can be said so simple. yeah why not make a sub for this?
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03-13-2015, 08:32 AM
Post: #40
RE: Digital Subliminal Drug Simulants: Good or bad idea?
well at least you're honest about that you're just expressing your discomfort with this topic but don't have any rational reason against subliminal designer brainwavestates (DBWS - I just came up with a new abbreviation haha).

So anybody else knows any reason why a subliminal DBWS replicating the effect of booze wouldn't be an awesome healthy moneysaver?
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