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In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
07-25-2017, 02:37 PM
Post: #61
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Alright so this is going to get really weird and I don't know what to entirely make of the experience. I was really messed up today and tried doing some work but decided halfway through I just needed to lay down. So I laid down and just let go and went through all different emotions and thoughts. After a while I started getting flashes of images in my head. First was sexual thoughts of women I have encountered. Nothing strange there. But here's where it gets really bizarre.

I had these images of a rainy damp, cobblestone place. My guess would be London. Not present day, Victorian era. Saw in my minds eye I was female. I just remember being incredibly afraid, like anywhere I went wasn't safe. It was dark, empty, and quiet.

I think I'm getting glimpses into a past life. I won't go any further into it because I'm pretty sure this borders on rule 4 territory. But it feels like I'm healing something that came before this lifetime. I woke up with a massive headache today and instead of doing what I normally do and trying to sleep it off, I allowed any and all possible emotional things to come up to be cleared. As I go deeper and deeper into the fear I notice my headache subsides which leads me to believe it was resistance preventing me from digging deeper. Might have been brutally murdered in this past life, was definitely in poverty, and based on what I've read about that era a lot of women resorted to prostitution.

This whole thing feels really weird. It's like when you don't want to think about something bad that happened in your past. That feeling of trying to push it out of your head or not dwell on it. But it's not from this current life. Part of me thinks I'm just over imagining all this and it's just how my mind is interpreting the fear I'm trying to remove. But another part of me believes this is where the fear I'm dealing with in my present life is coming from.

But I never really saw this coming. It also feels like maybe DMSI cleared some fear surrounding what reality actually is. It just makes me think of when I was younger in elementary school and I'd check out books from our library on ESP and UFOs and stuff. I always had this fascination with the paranormal at a young age. Maybe there's something there that go covered up as I moved into adulthood and now I'm learning to access it again.
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RTBoss
07-25-2017, 02:42 PM
Post: #62
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-25-2017 08:48 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Things have gotten heavy for me. I'm reading a book about shadow work. I think DMSI might have led me to it. The thing I really like about the book so far is it's the authors own experience. This isn't some book written by some guru that wanted to make a quick buck. It's her own experience and how despite all the positive thinking, affirmations, visualizations, hypnosis, etc. it helped but didn't make her feel whole. Her experience mirrors mine, I've always felt there was some piece of the puzzle I was missing and I think this is it.

I think there's a lot in me I refuse to see or outright ignore. I think part of that is fear if I acknowledge it then that's who I am. But whether I acknowledge it or not, it's there. So it's better to bring things to light and learn and forgive myself than trying to keep denying it. Carl Jung said "I'd rather be whole than good". For my whole life I've been trying to be good, trying to erase the negative aspects of myself and be this perfect person. It's caused me a lot of suffering. It's never been about striving for excellence, it's always been about running away from the parts of myself I disliked and disowned. DMSI has been bringing me face to face with these things to release them. It sounds easy and straightforward but in my experience there was always this gap or inability to own up to the fact that these parts were me. There was a lack of emotional release, despite heavy logical thought processes about what caused it and how to stop it.

Sounds like you're reading, "Dark Side of the Light Chasers." If so, great book. Read it during a pretty dark period of my life. It helped.
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07-25-2017, 04:42 PM
Post: #63
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
The shadow work stuff is valuable. I was looking at it along with Inner Bonding which I guess is similar in that it's finding those core wounded feelings, learning to feel and accept them and heal them.

I haven't specifically done shadow work stuff, but i've read a bit about it and can see the value in it.
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07-26-2017, 04:53 AM
Post: #64
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-25-2017 02:42 PM)RTBoss Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 08:48 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Things have gotten heavy for me. I'm reading a book about shadow work. I think DMSI might have led me to it. The thing I really like about the book so far is it's the authors own experience. This isn't some book written by some guru that wanted to make a quick buck. It's her own experience and how despite all the positive thinking, affirmations, visualizations, hypnosis, etc. it helped but didn't make her feel whole. Her experience mirrors mine, I've always felt there was some piece of the puzzle I was missing and I think this is it.

I think there's a lot in me I refuse to see or outright ignore. I think part of that is fear if I acknowledge it then that's who I am. But whether I acknowledge it or not, it's there. So it's better to bring things to light and learn and forgive myself than trying to keep denying it. Carl Jung said "I'd rather be whole than good". For my whole life I've been trying to be good, trying to erase the negative aspects of myself and be this perfect person. It's caused me a lot of suffering. It's never been about striving for excellence, it's always been about running away from the parts of myself I disliked and disowned. DMSI has been bringing me face to face with these things to release them. It sounds easy and straightforward but in my experience there was always this gap or inability to own up to the fact that these parts were me. There was a lack of emotional release, despite heavy logical thought processes about what caused it and how to stop it.

Sounds like you're reading, "Dark Side of the Light Chasers." If so, great book. Read it during a pretty dark period of my life. It helped.

Yup that's the one. I really like the idea of shadow work. I think the positive thought movement hurt more people than it helped to be honest.

(07-25-2017 04:42 PM)Benjamin Wrote:  The shadow work stuff is valuable. I was looking at it along with Inner Bonding which I guess is similar in that it's finding those core wounded feelings, learning to feel and accept them and heal them.

I haven't specifically done shadow work stuff, but i've read a bit about it and can see the value in it.

Yeah it's similar. I've been around a lot of these self help techniques but in the end I've learned it's less about the technique and more about accepting yourself. So they all have some overlap. What I like about shadow work is it doesn't really have some formal structure of what to do. It's more like you just go into your own mind ask questions and explore yourself. There's no right or wrong or failure or whatever you might get trying to get other techniques to work.
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07-26-2017, 11:51 AM
Post: #65
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
So decided to message a girl I saw on okcupid. Got a response back, but sensed disinterest. But the thing that felt good was I didn't really care. For the first time in my life I was interested and just went for it. And when it didn't work out instead of feeling like a terrible person I just acknowledged not everyone will like me and that's fine. It's more empowering coming to terms with that fact than trying to turn myself into this universally attractive and desirable guy. Less pressure, less need to be anything other than myself, and less need for a certain outcome to be achieved.

That being said it feels like I had a huge leap in growth overnight but I still feel there's stuff I'm struggling with. Still afraid of getting attention from women and being sexy. I can feel myself sort of holding back. Probably still parts of myself I'm ashamed of that I need to integrate and embrace so I no longer fear other people seeing them. But overall it feels like I'm more whole right now and I can just be for the time being without being bothered by that anxiety of needing to be something better.
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07-27-2017, 06:46 AM
Post: #66
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Upping the loops of DMSI to 4. Feels like in order to keep this momentum going I have to expose myself more. I felt the resistance creeping in again and knew I had to do something otherwise it would sabotage me again.

Started thinking about buying MLS because there's a ton of stuff I want to learn. But then I also realized my main problem isn't learning, it's just being too afraid to take action. I have enough knowledge to get a better job as well as the skills, I just don't have the confidence as much as I'd like to have. So I'm going to be sticking with DMSI for the long haul.

It feels like I'm getting close to breaking out of this rut I've been in for years. Being too afraid to do anything, life being miserable, getting depressed because life sucks, wanting to change but too afraid to change sort of cycle. Even if I can't push forward as much as I like outwardly, I can keep the internal pressure on me by upping my exposure time with this sub. So that's what I'm doing. Eventually something will give and I'll be where I want to be.
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07-27-2017, 08:19 AM
Post: #67
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Quote:Started thinking about buying MLS because there's a ton of stuff I want to learn. But then I also realized my main problem isn't learning, it's just being too afraid to take action. I have enough knowledge to get a better job as well as the skills, I just don't have the confidence as much as I'd like to have. So I'm going to be sticking with DMSI for the long haul.
Doesn't DMSI work on self-confidence for the goal of the program only ? How would DMSI help with confidence related to work ?
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07-27-2017, 08:58 AM
Post: #68
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-27-2017 08:19 AM)Plouf Wrote:  
Quote:Started thinking about buying MLS because there's a ton of stuff I want to learn. But then I also realized my main problem isn't learning, it's just being too afraid to take action. I have enough knowledge to get a better job as well as the skills, I just don't have the confidence as much as I'd like to have. So I'm going to be sticking with DMSI for the long haul.
Doesn't DMSI work on self-confidence for the goal of the program only ? How would DMSI help with confidence related to work ?

Well, confidence is believing in your own capability of accomplishing "things". Not necessarily a specific goal. So if DMSI increases your confidence, you will think you have a greater capability of accomplishing, for example, work-related stuff.
DMSI will also with the help of healing most likely "remove" the bad memories related to not having greater confidence. Which also indirectly will have an effect on work stuff. Also, a sexually irresistible guy is confident in his own work Wink

DMSI also works on your self-esteem, how you feel about yourself regardless of you are capable of (currently) accomplishing X or Y. More or less allowing you to apply for positions, taking a greater leap of faith than if you didn't have high self-esteem. Allowing you to get rewarded for taking chances you otherwise wouldn't have, simply by putting yourself out there more.

ENTJ
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JakeKennedy
07-27-2017, 09:47 AM
Post: #69
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-27-2017 08:19 AM)Plouf Wrote:  
Quote:Started thinking about buying MLS because there's a ton of stuff I want to learn. But then I also realized my main problem isn't learning, it's just being too afraid to take action. I have enough knowledge to get a better job as well as the skills, I just don't have the confidence as much as I'd like to have. So I'm going to be sticking with DMSI for the long haul.
Doesn't DMSI work on self-confidence for the goal of the program only ? How would DMSI help with confidence related to work ?

What ReeZoX said is pretty much covering all of it. DMSI has a lot of side benefits that I was mostly after when I started this sub. I was originally going to run E2 but I couldn't resist trying out the newer tech.
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07-27-2017, 06:29 PM
Post: #70
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Well either 4 loops is doing my brain in or I'm manifesting resistance in very noticeable ways. Lost my keys today in my house. Spent a good 20 minutes searching and they ended up in one of my bottom drawers where I keep a bunch of computer stuff. I don't remember putting them in there or if they fell. It was like they completely vanished. Then later on that day I locked my keys in my car and had to call AAA.

But the good news is I have a job interview this monday for an IT position. The fear is at an all time high and I'm doing my best to just visualize everything going smoothly and landing the job. I realized that I sabotage myself a lot by insisting I can't or shooting myself down before I even try. Lately with this shadow work I've been healing aspects of myself and becoming ok with the more negative parts of me. But it was also a bit of a copout because I didn't focus enough on improving those aspects and accepting the possibility I could be more than what I limit myself to.

I tell myself a lot of things that I take for fact when I shouldn't. One of my biggest problems is believing that the negative is somehow more realistic than the positive. I have a very poor perception of myself I need to change. You know your own self esteem is bad when you think being positive and acknowledging your strengths feels like you are being delusional. That's how strong these beliefs are that I need to break. Every time I've tried to change my mindset in the past I was met with that inner voice that said "You're just lying to yourself, look how pathetic you are trying to thing highly of yourself, you're nothing but a loser". But this time I'm not going to listen to that voice and give into it, I'm going to keep going.
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07-27-2017, 08:55 PM
Post: #71
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
You're clearly intelligent, perceptive, and empathetic of other's plights. You share some deep insight around the board. I'd say if I met you, I'd be surprised if you didn't come across as a completely capable person. So yeah, break those false beliefs about yourself, because from where I sit, there's no truth to them. Try saying/thinking, "Regardless of feeling *this way about myself* right now, I could be wrong. I have a lot to offer, such as 'A,B,C.'. I'm going to do 'X' anyway, even if just as an experiment, and see what happens."

I'm always amazed by people with NO talent and a completely diminished capacity for deep thought who get out there and do things, without care for how they're being perceived. Gotta give 'em credit for that, I guess. Get some of that confidence and come-what-may attitude, I think you'll start enjoying yourself a lot more, see who you really are, and tell that shitty little voice to STFU!
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07-28-2017, 06:08 AM
Post: #72
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-27-2017 08:55 PM)RTBoss Wrote:  You're clearly intelligent, perceptive, and empathetic of other's plights. You share some deep insight around the board. I'd say if I met you, I'd be surprised if you didn't come across as a completely capable person. So yeah, break those false beliefs about yourself, because from where I sit, there's no truth to them. Try saying/thinking, "Regardless of feeling *this way about myself* right now, I could be wrong. I have a lot to offer, such as 'A,B,C.'. I'm going to do 'X' anyway, even if just as an experiment, and see what happens."

I'm always amazed by people with NO talent and a completely diminished capacity for deep thought who get out there and do things, without care for how they're being perceived. Gotta give 'em credit for that, I guess. Get some of that confidence and come-what-may attitude, I think you'll start enjoying yourself a lot more, see who you really are, and tell that shitty little voice to STFU!

Thanks man, it means a lot to me. Trying to get this stuff sorted. Those types of people have always been a mystery to me. Seems like the more capacity for self reflection and deep thought the more of a hole you can dig yourself in. I'm working on trying to be less serious about my life. Not being irresponsible, just not treating things like life or death all the time. I think I've got a lot of untapped potential, just a lot of that energy has been directed at putting myself down instead of building myself up. Funny how life works sometimes, the most capable people are sometimes the ones who don't rise to the top. I like to think there's a lesson in there somewhere that'll give me strengths in my life.
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07-29-2017, 07:33 AM (This post was last modified: 07-29-2017 07:41 AM by mat422.)
Post: #73
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

I guess what I'm saying is, I want to get to the source. I want to find the truth behind all this. What limits people and why some of us are held back. Why some can just do a little bit of positive visualization and their life alters course dramatically while others attempt the same and things actually get worse. I want to get deeper than "oh you just need to stop being a negative person". I hate the new age movement with a passion. I used to be roped into it until I realized it's regression, not advancement. They discourage more critical thinking as "ego", anything that shatters the perfectly created illusion of "you create your own destiny" they stick their head in the sand and ignore. But that's not how you grow, that's not how you help others.

How many of those healing modalities have you seen come out? Where the person promises the world and then it's just some rehash of energy clearing or emotional releasing. It's all the same shit repackaged in a shiny new box and people just keep perpetuating this cycle of regurgitating this stuff for financial gain. It's always the same excuse, it's not the tool it's the person. Well if your tool is designed to help people and it can't do that, guess what? It's not a good tool. If I had a nail and I tried to hammer it in with a screwdriver people would think there's something really wrong with that. But it happens all the damn time in the self help industry. It's the individual, not the tool they claim.

I'm really heated right now because I've met a lot of people that share my struggle and I want to help them in some way but I can't. And I'm sick of these people being left by the wayside as "negative" or "toxic" because they can't adapt some cult like positivity mentality.

In my hugely passionate emotional rant I accept that I could be completely off the mark here. But it's my experience of what I've encountered with a lot of this stuff. Also why I've mostly stuck to these subliminals because they offer concrete changes, not just wishful thinking.

Dave Chappelle gets it.



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07-29-2017, 08:10 AM
Post: #74
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-29-2017 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.
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07-30-2017, 01:14 PM
Post: #75
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-29-2017 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.



Got in my car today and told myself the next song that comes up on my phone has a lesson to teach me. So I hit shuffle and this is the track that played.





The message is about racism. But it's not limited to that. It's about denial, keeping the darker aspects of ourselves hidden and denying them. All the while crafting elaborate stories to protect our own egos from the truth.

For me this goes back to my perfectionism. It's a direct result of holding the internal belief that I'm not good enough. My whole life has been dedicated to proving that wrong by trying to be great at everything I do and never accepting anything less. Also being incredibly judgemental of imperfections in others.

The most difficult thing has been staying with that inner wound and acknowledging it to heal it. Because the perfectionist in me says I'm overthinking it, I'm just making excuses, that it can't be me because I'm as emotionally healthy as I could possibly be. All thoughts fueled by the need to be perfect and get me to avoid accepting the truth.

It's funny because prior to this I held the belief that too much digging was pointless. But I think as I got closer to my core issues my mind started creating distractions to pull me away from it. I don't think you can ever dig too deep. If anything I didn't dig deep enough. To me I consider an issue healed when your outer life reflects how you want your life to be. Otherwise you'll just keep running into the same issues until you get your internal beliefs sorted out. No more of this, I'm healed so why is my life still a mess? Nope, my life is a reflection of my inner world.
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07-30-2017, 01:32 PM
Post: #76
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-30-2017 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.
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07-30-2017, 02:17 PM
Post: #77
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-30-2017 01:32 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-30-2017 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.

Yeah I hear you. This kind of goes onto the objective vs subjective truth philosophical discussion. For every person thinking they have some objective fact about how the world works, another refutes it and at the same time demonstrates how it isn't true. The only thing I can really say is that people have their own internal belief structures and models of reality. At any point we are operating out of some kind of belief structure. Some people stay within it and some people venture out of it. I guess it all depends what you personally want to do. Get lots of success being an asshole? Ok. Get lots of success being a good person? Also ok. It just seems like it's more about the intent and power behind the individual rather than their actions or methods. So maybe it's a case of opening the mind and expanding possibilities then choosing whatever you want. So we shift from open mindedness to narrow mindedness, it's like a constantly fluctuating state rather than a static one.

Having said that, thinking about it really does my head in so I'd imagine a lot of people just don't even bother thinking of things in these terms. Fear seems like it would lead people to gravitate towards what they know and are familiar with rather than venture outside of that. When you have a sort of roadmap to life things seem easier or more stable. But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind.

This got longer than I expected lol. Anyway, yeah. It's not an easy question that's for damn sure.
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SargeMaximus
07-30-2017, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2017 02:42 PM by SargeMaximus.)
Post: #78
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-30-2017 02:17 PM)mat422 Wrote:  
(07-30-2017 01:32 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-30-2017 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote:  
(07-29-2017 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote:  Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.

Yeah I hear you. This kind of goes onto the objective vs subjective truth philosophical discussion. For every person thinking they have some objective fact about how the world works, another refutes it and at the same time demonstrates how it isn't true. The only thing I can really say is that people have their own internal belief structures and models of reality. At any point we are operating out of some kind of belief structure. Some people stay within it and some people venture out of it. I guess it all depends what you personally want to do. Get lots of success being an asshole? Ok. Get lots of success being a good person? Also ok. It just seems like it's more about the intent and power behind the individual rather than their actions or methods. So maybe it's a case of opening the mind and expanding possibilities then choosing whatever you want. So we shift from open mindedness to narrow mindedness, it's like a constantly fluctuating state rather than a static one.

Hmm, very interesting thoughts you have matt.

As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.


The other side of it is emotional impact. If you have STRONG emotions (whether they be good or bad) you will see effects ripple in the outside world, while if you do not or are in a state of confusion or apathy, things will be ghosting you (results themselves will ghost you, this is what is happening to me in sales ATM).

Despite getting an app yesterday. I got that app while I was very nervous (strong emotion). Once I got it, the nervousness subsided and I got nothing further. Coincidence? Hard to say, N=1 after all, However the flip side is not considered in that I could at one time get apps in sales on command.

But I don't want to talk about my sales woes, I'm simply trying to identify the "it" factor.

Everywhere you look, 20% of the effort yields 80% of the results.


And so, perhaps learning about some things are simply learning about the other 80% that yields only 20% (like learning body language. I'm pretty much convinced knowing BL is useless unless you need to know it to make money, which I don't in my profession, because I made money for years without knowing anything about it.), which is why they never seem to improve anything all that much, while if you find the "it" factor, you've found the 20% that yields 80%

So I suppose you have to know what is needed to get the results you want, and this is done by knowing what your outcome is, and knowing if you are getting closer or farther away from that outcome and what needs to be done to achieve it.

(07-30-2017 02:17 PM)mat422 Wrote:  Having said that, thinking about it really does my head in so I'd imagine a lot of people just don't even bother thinking of things in these terms. Fear seems like it would lead people to gravitate towards what they know and are familiar with rather than venture outside of that. When you have a sort of roadmap to life things seem easier or more stable. But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind.

This got longer than I expected lol. Anyway, yeah. It's not an easy question that's for damn sure.

No, it definitely isn't.

And yeah, that's a good point: "But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind. " which is what can happen when learning new ways of doing things.
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07-31-2017, 10:00 AM
Post: #79
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
Quote:As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.

The problem lies in the fact that none of us are completely objective. Like if someone holds the belief that being an asshole is what attracts women to you and tries to be nice it won't work because their personal reality is asshole= results. What I'm trying to get at is results don't always determine the objective truth. Not if the thing analyzing these truths is as subjective as the human mind. The thing is with our beliefs sometimes they are so ingrained in us and so much a part of our reality we can't think outside of the box. They are hidden, we can't access them so we naturally assume they aren't there. Then comes confirmation bias where we only collect evidence or see what we want to see to support that internal belief structure.

Quote:The other side of it is emotional impact. If you have STRONG emotions (whether they be good or bad) you will see effects ripple in the outside world, while if you do not or are in a state of confusion or apathy, things will be ghosting you (results themselves will ghost you, this is what is happening to me in sales ATM).

Despite getting an app yesterday. I got that app while I was very nervous (strong emotion). Once I got it, the nervousness subsided and I got nothing further. Coincidence? Hard to say, N=1 after all, However the flip side is not considered in that I could at one time get apps in sales on command.

But I don't want to talk about my sales woes, I'm simply trying to identify the "it" factor.

Everywhere you look, 20% of the effort yields 80% of the results.

And so, perhaps learning about some things are simply learning about the other 80% that yields only 20% (like learning body language. I'm pretty much convinced knowing BL is useless unless you need to know it to make money, which I don't in my profession, because I made money for years without knowing anything about it.), which is why they never seem to improve anything all that much, while if you find the "it" factor, you've found the 20% that yields 80%

So I suppose you have to know what is needed to get the results you want, and this is done by knowing what your outcome is, and knowing if you are getting closer or farther away from that outcome and what needs to be done to achieve it.

What you wrote about body language and sales reminds me of something in my life related to music and music theory. Music theory is often cited as something really vital to making music. But there are many successful artists who don't know theory and there are many mediocre ones who do know it. So that "it" factor you're talking about. I get it. In my honest opinion that's what separates people from a life of success, but I think the "it" factor is different for every one of us. It's a very intangible yet real thing. I think it's more about identifying our flaws and working on them, while capitalizing on our strengths. So it's not one thing, but a collection of many lessons we have to learn.

I honestly believe the "it" factor is just our beliefs. The correct beliefs being internalized for our desired outcome = success. All that overthinking and trying to figure out what to do goes right out the window because we embody it instead of trying to become it.
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RTBoss, SargeMaximus
07-31-2017, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 07-31-2017 10:33 AM by SargeMaximus.)
Post: #80
RE: In this for the healing DMSI v3.1 A
(07-31-2017 10:00 AM)mat422 Wrote:  
Quote:As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.

The problem lies in the fact that none of us are completely objective. Like if someone holds the belief that being an asshole is what attracts women to you and tries to be nice it won't work because their personal reality is asshole= results. What I'm trying to get at is results don't always determine the objective truth. Not if the thing analyzing these truths is as subjective as the human mind. The thing is with our beliefs sometimes they are so ingrained in us and so much a part of our reality we can't think outside of the box. They are hidden, we can't access them so we naturally assume they aren't there. Then comes confirmation bias where we only collect evidence or see what we want to see to support that internal belief structure.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

If something doesn't yield external results, it does not work (for the person using it).

The reason why so many different things work for so many different people is because people are different. What works for one might not work for another. But still, if something gives external results, it DOES "work". Whoever is analyzing it is irrelevant. The external results are the objective reality.

Now, I agree some people may not be self-aware enough to know what, exactly, is causing the results. Like in the case of the jerk, "treat women like shit!" is his motto, but maybe the reason it works is because he and the girls are having fun while he does it, and that is what is really turning them on. Not him treating them like shit, but his self-amusement and including them.


(07-31-2017 10:00 AM)mat422 Wrote:  What you wrote about body language and sales reminds me of something in my life related to music and music theory. Music theory is often cited as something really vital to making music. But there are many successful artists who don't know theory and there are many mediocre ones who do know it. So that "it" factor you're talking about. I get it. In my honest opinion that's what separates people from a life of success, but I think the "it" factor is different for every one of us. It's a very intangible yet real thing. I think it's more about identifying our flaws and working on them, while capitalizing on our strengths. So it's not one thing, but a collection of many lessons we have to learn.

I honestly believe the "it" factor is just our beliefs. The correct beliefs being internalized for our desired outcome = success. All that overthinking and trying to figure out what to do goes right out the window because we embody it instead of trying to become it.

Wow man, I agree 100% with this. Very aptly put.

In sales I've been told I'm a natural and can get away with things others can't. I think that is a sure sign one is dwelling in "it". Whether it be sales, music, women, doesn't matter.

I also think that, along with identifying flaws and capitalizing on strengths, it is more or less about having the courage to be what you know you are, and not hiding it from others. Not imposing, but not hiding. Interacting, yet not dictating. Being, not forcing.

EDIT: Oh, btw, have you ever read "The Alchemist"? It's a great book. In it he talks about the objective reality I'm trying to describe. He calls it "the wind" I believe. I need to read it again but yeah, great book for that.
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